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A conversation about DataSets and Web Services

For the past seven weeks, save the week of Thanksgiving, I've been on the road. Sure, I stopped home occasional to "freshen up," but that's still seven weeks of hard. In that time, I've been to five states, more cities than I have fingers (I have all of my original fingers, by the way), started a new relationship, shown Vegas to my sister, gone blind, had a three and a half week bout of bronchitis, taken part in an A&E documentary, made an ass out of myself at a poker game at Chris's house, pissed everybody off with The Post That I Will Not Mention, done about forty crossword puzzles, and slept nary a wink.

Tonight, for the first time in a long time, I am spending a Saturday night at my apartment, and I'm spending it by myself.

To celebrate this brief respite from the action, I went out today and bought myself some fruit.

I came home and used my opposable thumbs to peel the outer layer from a seedless tangerine. I learned tonight that the reward for being an intelligent primate is the tart, pulpy innards of seedless tangerines in December.

"Great," you're saying to yourself. "What does that have to do with DataSets?"

Nothing.

What I wanted to say about DataSets is this:

Mixed in with the Vegasing and tangerine-peeling was a lunch with a fabulous man by the name of "Stuart Celarier." He recently started a blog [update: it looks like Stuart just moved his blog here in what seems to have been the fastest blog startup/switcheroo ever, even beating out Jim Blizzard who has had about 16 blogs over the past five months], and he posted about the lunch that we had. He's a Portland geek with a penchant for juggling, a love of Stupid Human Tricks, and a gray-matter repository of a little too much coding information (he knows his stuff cold).

If you have ever wondered about what it is that I have against exposing DataSets at the end of web services, then you need to read the post about our lunch (here's the link again in case you're to lazy to go back and click the first one).

What I have against DataSets and web services isn't even really a problem that's specific to DataSets - it's simply that the DS/WS combo is indicative of a much larger problem that I lack the eloquence to describe. Stuart, on the other hand, nails it and tells the story in a way I couldn't.

Anyway, tangerine time. I'm going to go eat more tangerines. You should, too.

Published Sunday, December 12, 2004 7:58 AM by Rory

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Comments

 

Erling Ormar said:

Oh, I will. Call me Tangerine Man - as they did for about a week here at work. I once downed some 12 tangerines on a consecutive 5 hour period, after which I stopped - out of guilt - because the others had to have some, too ;)
December 12, 2004 9:54 AM
 

Matt Trevors said:

Dear Mr. Microsoft Pacific Northwest District Developer Community Champion,

Great title Rory, and you're right, he did present his (and your) position very eloquently. Hope you get better soon.
December 12, 2004 4:13 PM
 

Andres Aguiar said:

As I cannot comment in Stuart's blog, I'll do it here ;)

a) He's right about that if you are not going to update data, then it's probably not a good idea to use a DataSet, unless you only want to use it with .NET clients and are willing to pay the serialization overhead.

b) He's wrong with the DataSet/Database coupling one. A DataSet does not need to be coupled with the database, it can have any structure. I can return a DataSet even if I don't have a database in the backend.

c) The argument about sharing types is also weak. Check http://www.25hoursaday.com/weblog/default.aspx?date=2004-06-03 for an interesting point of view. In DCOM you _cannot_ invoke a service if you don't have the type. In WebServices with a DataSet, you can, even if you are in Java. Also, if you return a typed dataset, you don't need to have the same _type_ on the other side of the wire, just an equivalente DataSet.



December 12, 2004 11:50 PM
 

Stuart said:

"Sure, I stopped home occasional to "freshen up," but that's still seven weeks of hard."

Holy Crap, man! I think you're supposed to consult a physician if you have one for more than twelve hours!
December 13, 2004 2:31 PM
 

Ian Griffiths said:

Rory, have you considered acquiring some more fingers? This could provide a whole new perspective on how many cities you've visited.
December 13, 2004 4:48 PM
 

Rory said:

Ian -

"Rory, have you considered acquiring some more fingers?"

Strange that you should mention that...

I have of late, but wherefore I know not, been infatuated with the thought of these people who are born with "extra" fingers but have them lopped off at birth.

*I want those extra fingers*.

I even had a dream about it a couple weeks ago - I was trying to play something on the piano which required a ridiculous reach, and all I could think was that it would have been a lot easier if I had six fingers per hand.

So, yes: I *have* considered acquiring some more fingers.

The problem is that it doesn't seem like you can retrofit these suckers.
December 13, 2004 5:17 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Remoting DataSets - and DataSets from Web Services
December 12, 2004 6:39 PM
 

TrackBack said:

I love learning new stuff
December 14, 2004 10:35 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Andres on Remoting Datasets...
December 16, 2004 5:37 PM
 

TrackBack said:

re: Andres on Remoting Datasets...
December 16, 2004 6:31 PM
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About Rory

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