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Firefox Pomposity

“Today we secretly replaced the hive-mind of Slashdot with Folger’s Crystals – let’s see if anybody notices…”

As always, I’ve been watching Slashdot lately. To recap for those of you who may have missed what’s going on, here are a few recent post titles:

– “Firefox use up .00032%”

– “Firefox use up .0078% in Tennessee”

– “Microsoft employee admits to using Firefox”

– Etc.

Outside Slashdot, something else happens that I find interesting: Often, when someone learns that I work for Microsoft, one of the first things I’m told is, “I use Firefox,” and it’s accompanied by a defiant look, as though I’m supposed lose control over my bowels and ruin a perfectly good pair of shorts upon hearing the news that Morton B. Pumpernickel isn’t using my company’s browser anymore.

I’m not sure what it is that drives people to want to tell me that, but I wanted to state, for anyone of this mindset who might be reading, that I don’t care.

I understand the implications of Firefox as a threat to Microsoft. With XUL, and with a host of applications that run inside the browser, Firefox isn’t just a web browser, but a platform as well. As users grow accustomed to running applications inside of Firefox, they will eventually begin to pay little attention to the platform on which Firefox itself is running. In most cases, right now, I think we can safely assume that this platform is Windows. As long as these users are comfortable with Firefox, they’ll pay more attention to whether or not a particular platform has Firefox rather than what the platform actually is, and some might just go for the cheapest platform, which will often not be Windows.

And still, I don’t care.

Not “I don’t care about the threat,” but more “I don’t care that you run Firefox.”

There’s something that has always irritated me about rebellion without any purpose, and something tells me that a lot of people who switch to Firefox aren’t aware of why they’re switching to Firefox. Beyond the usual “I have a friend who told me that IE sux0rz, so I switched,” there are probably few people who have a real grasp of what the change implies (in other words, I’m not criticizing Firefox, or saying that it’s a bad product – I’m talking smack about the slack-jawed ape-people who switch to it just to be “cool”).

It reminds me quite a bit of the move to Linux a few years ago. I could hear the implied high-five slap whenever two nerds agreed that “Wind0ze sux0rz and Linux r0x0rz.” Was there any technical justification for the pride? Not usually. I knew some very intelligent people who were very into Linux, and who could do a good job of explaining why Linux worked for them in certain situations, but I also knew a lot of non geek types who switched just because it was cool to trash Microsoft.

I’ve been fascinated for most of my life with the human tendency to rebel en masse. When I was in high school, everybody decided one day that the music on the radio sucked, and so they rebelled by becoming followers of what has since become known as “alternative rock.” They complained that commercial music had no individuality, and that it had no soul. They all put on the same clothing to demonstrate their solidarity, the movement became very widespread, and within a year, every radio station on the planet was playing “alternative rock,” every fifteen year-old was wearing a plaid flannel shirt, Pearl Jam was giving concerts beneath Budweiser banners, and little preppy bastards like me became the minority. My entire generation was one solid voice, screaming, in unison and in uniform, “I’M DIFFERENT!”

Isn’t that funny? I think that’s funny. Rebellion can be such a sheepy activity.

Now people tell me with the same angsty indignation that they’re no longer using IE and that they’ve switched to the next most popular browser.

I wonder how they type out URLs with their hooves…

Published Friday, January 28, 2005 11:11 PM by Rory

Filed Under:

Comments

 

George said:

I will now attempt to do my online impersonation of Rory....

[ahem...center myself...and scene!]

[little boy skipping down the paths of a peaceful forest]

Little Boy: la la la la la la [Ed: that's the Smurf's intro song for you musically ungifted out there]

[the little boy spies a bees nest hanging from a branch above]

[a mischievous smile slowly spreads across his face]

[glancing about he spies an M16 laying on the path]

[the little boy scoops up the M16]

Little Boy: Mwuah ha ha ha [Ed: Very maniacal laugh for you laugh illiterate out there]

[letting out a steady steam of lead the little boy precedes to shoot down the bees nest, the tree, a few terrified deer, 16 rabbits and a few squirrels]

Little Boy: You think Firefox is great! I don't care what you think!! Who's holding the M16??? Huh, tell me that motherf&#*!$ Who wants to use Firefox now!!! Answer me biatch!!!

[AND SCENE!!!]

phew, it really takes a lot out of you trying to become Rory. I feel kind of dirty now. Dirty and a little turned on.
January 28, 2005 11:44 PM
 

Jason Bunting said:

I don't know that I could have framed the situation any more correctly than you did Rory, I concur. I actually knew people that looked at being *gay* the same way - amazingly, they thought it was "cool" to be gay, as if it were a brand of clothing. A friend of mine, while I was off living in the Grand Canyon, wrote to me to tell me that he tried kissing a guy at some rave because he thought "it would be just like kissing a girl, our mouths are the same shape and such, etc." What a total freak. He said though, that it was indeed different, and he would never do that again. I don't need to eat dog crap to know that I will not like the taste. Anyway, kind of a tangent, but I think you get my point. :P
January 29, 2005 12:15 AM
 

paul said:

The FireFox folks said they would have 10% of all WWW surfers by the end of 2004, but that didn't happen. What I don't understand is why are so many Interneters not switching to Feedreaders and Smart Clients?
January 29, 2005 12:35 AM
 

JD said:

As a web developer, I often have to jump into both browsers to check out how my site looks across various platforms. I've found some things I like in Firefox, and some things I don't. Truth is, I don't care what browser I'm in as long as I can tell what I'm reading. When talking to others about their Firefox habits, once it gets past the whole CSS compliance thing, there isn't much to go on. They usually complain about "all kinds of holes", but whenever they do a browser security check, they magically seem to have disappeared. I'm just waiting till malicious programmers decide firefox is a worthy target and show the world that ALL software contains bugs; Microsoft is just targeted because they have such a large user base.
January 29, 2005 1:36 AM
 

Michael Earls said:

So, Jason, if I understand you correctly, then...

All Firefox users are *gay*?
January 29, 2005 2:15 AM
 

Jason Clarke said:

Haha, nice post, Rory. I get what you mean, and you're right that there are a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon because they perceive it as being cool to go against the "man". But when it comes down to it, Firefox offers a superior browsing experience by my personal metrics. That wasn't always the case, but it sure is now. When someone uses that argument, surely you don't continue to act defensive of IE?
January 29, 2005 2:49 AM
 

Anonymous said:

Most of my computers are windows, and I use firefox on them for tabbed browsing and some specific firefox plugs (and blah blah security blah blah). I just got a P2-400 laptop. I run linux on it because:
A: It was free.
B: I like the concept of open source software.
C: It took me 2 minutes to set up cellphone internet on it, as opposed to simply causing windows boxes to freeze when I attempt to do it (buggy drivers, not microsoft's fault particularly.)
D: I had a linux CD around.
E: It's old hardware, so my choices are more or less win98 (not very well supported these days) or Linux. I often get a better performance/functionality ratio on old hardware with linux than I do with older windows versions, but this is less true (and often completely false) on faster and more current hardware.

But, of course, there is another reason, REASON F that led me to run linux on the laptop, and that's the same reason some people program in x86 asm instead of VB.NET or C#.

FOR THE CHALLENGE. Yes, most of the installation and usage is pretty smooth, and with linux, these days, *once your machine is set up* it's more or less as easy to use as windows, -BUT- in some cases the setup is not automatic. For me, it wasn't. I had to edit some configuration files to get sound to work on this old Thinkpad 600E. It wasy easy to do after a google search, but it did require work. Also, as far as I know there's no graphical frontend to let you configure your wifi cards in linux, but I could be mistaken, so I wrote a wifi connection 'script.' It's not very complicated, just:
iwconfig eth0 essid "mywifiessid" enc "mylongasswifikey" && ifconfig eth0 down up && pump

why do i have to run ifconfig eth0 down up? damned if i know why i have to reset my adapter to apply the changes, but i think it's a driver issue. pump just goes out and snags an IP. So while it's not rocket science, it certainly isn't intuitive, and it's not something gramma can do.

SO THAT MAKES ME COOLER THAN GRAMMA BECAUSE I RUN DEBIAN ON A LAPTOP. HOOYA!
January 29, 2005 4:35 AM
 

Anonymous said:

And by the way, in case you didn't GET THE JOKE, installing an os 'for the challenge' is probably a *bad reason.*
January 29, 2005 4:36 AM
 

Rory said:

Paul -

"What I don't understand is why are so many Interneters not switching to Feedreaders and Smart Clients?"

Feedreaders: I'm guessing that this will happen when they start getting shipped with the OS (until some justice department makes us rip it out again).

Smart clients: Too much work for developers, and too many pieces of software to keep track of for users. I think we'll see a few really cool smart client apps (like Encarta), but for the most part people are just going to stick to the web. It's going to be easier for the devs to deploy and maintain, and it's going to be easier for the users to get to. Plus, if you're running OS X or *nix, a smart client app for Windows isn't going to do you much good :|
January 29, 2005 9:06 AM
 

Rory said:

Jason -

"Firefox offers a superior browsing experience by my personal metrics. [...] When someone uses that argument, surely you don't continue to act defensive of IE?"

That's a perfectly reasonable argument, and has nothing to do with fashion.

I think IE is horribly behind the times. When every other browser on the planet that's worth a damn supports tabbed browsing, it's just crappy that I still have to have different copies of IE open to have multiple sites open at once.

As of right now, my favorite browser on the planet is Apple's Safari. That's hardly a defense of IE :)
January 29, 2005 9:10 AM
 

Mike Harges said:

Rory -

You forgot what must be the number one reason not to use Firefox. Your blog doesn't display properly. I'm gonna uninstall Firefox right now and go back to IE.

Seriously, the right side list of archives, post categories, etc. isn't displayed in a separate column, but instead it's shown right-justified after all the posts on the main page.
January 29, 2005 3:59 PM
 

Tim Marman said:

So true, so true :)
January 29, 2005 4:00 PM
 

George Clingerman said:

ummm....not to stir the pot or anything (he he he), but Rory's blog not displaying in Firefox isn't a defect in Firefox but in Rory's blog....

Internet Explorer does a lot of "guessing" what the web developer meant and Firefox doesn't. (I guess you COULD call having a browser guess what the developer meant a feature but I hate anything that breeds sloppiness in coding) A well-programmed web page (or app) does not show up differently in either (any) browser.

Have I just been brainwashed here Rory and am talking out my shapely buttocks or do I speak the truth?
January 29, 2005 5:01 PM
 

George Clingerman said:

oh and just because I LOVE this discussion that much, I just wanted to point out that I'm GLAD everyone doesn't like Firefox.

While I do love the fact that I can add in extensions and give myself the little features (tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, ad block, banner block, etc.) that make it a superior browsing, I do not feel that it's secure.

The security I feel that I do enjoy with Firefox is not due to it's superiority over Internet Explorer but rather due to it's smaller market share.

I mean, it just makes sense. If I'm going to take the time to explore the security holes in an application so I can perform some malicious attack am I going to take the time to do it to the larger marker share or the smaller? Which gains me more publicity, fame or victims?

Obviously if Firefox took the market (which I doubt) guess who's going to be in the news for all their security holes. In fact the closer Firefox gets to owning a larger percentage of the market, the sooner these reports will start coming in. (Even sooner if the reports I'm hearing that government agencies are switching all their user's to Firefox are true)

So better browsing...a personal choice (and I fully expect Internet Explorer to start adding in the better of Firefox's extensions).

Better security. I'll enjoy it while I can.

January 29, 2005 5:14 PM
 

Mike Harges said:

George -

Does this mean that the display problems are all Rory's fault and I can re-install Firefox with a clean conscience? Whew, what a load off my mind. :)

Actually, your observation makes a lot of sense, especially what I've heard about IE's standards compliance (I'm a database guy, not a web guy). I've been looking at the world through IE colored glasses for so long that I didn't even stop to think that the issue could have been with IE.

mlh

ps - Rory, in case you're worried, I don't think that it's all your fault. Nor did/do I have any intention of uninstalling Firefox. So rest easy.
January 29, 2005 9:13 PM
 

Matthew Burns said:

"and something tells me that a lot of people who switch to Firefox aren’t aware of why they’re switching to Firefox."



Tabbed browsing, pop up blocking.

plus I like the little Google search box in the upper corner and I like being able to highlight something and right click on it and search the web for it.
January 29, 2005 10:44 PM
 

Bob Reselman said:

Rory, dude:

I code for the LA Weekly, a newspaper with about 80% MAC usage. IE just doesn't work that well on the MAC platform...... thus.......
January 30, 2005 9:32 PM
 

Rory said:

Bob -

"IE just doesn't work that well on the MAC platform...... thus......."

Correction, my friend: IE runs like *shit* on Macs.

When I'm using my Mac, I use Safari, which I love, and which I wish were available on other platforms.

It's not the most compatible browser in the universe, but the app is wonderful.
January 30, 2005 9:41 PM
 

Josh said:

I have never heard of anyone switching browsers because of "fashion". Are you sure they really exist? Or are you projecting your opinion, because you can't think of any other reason that they might?

The only people that I know that use Firefox (remember, it is still a very small percentage), are geeks (who would know why Firefox is "better"), and relatives of geeks that were told to switch, so that said geek no longer has to do spyware support.

Outside of those 2 groups, who else even knows what a browser is? Sure, people use them all the time, but I don't think they are aware of it.

So I have a hard time believing that there is a mass of people that chose to switch without knowing why. Just like I have a hard time believing there are a bunch of "non-geeks" that switched to linux to bash Microsoft. 1) non-geeks wouldnt know what linux is and 2) non-geeks wouldn't be able to switch to linux, because it just isn't that easy.

I would guess that if you talked to all of these individuals, you would find out that they really do have reasons for switching - maybe they aren't all technical reasons, but I bet none of them have to do with being fashionable or cool.
February 1, 2005 6:32 PM
 

Rory said:

Josh -

"I have never heard of anyone switching browsers because of 'fashion.'"

Oh. Then it never happens.

"Are you sure they really exist?"

Not anymore. You've really cast a large shadow of doubt over my entire belief system.

"Or are you projecting your opinion"

Actually, I thought I was presenting everything as FACT, and that this was going to go into my portfolio of fair and unbiased pieces of writing that will one day get me a job working for the Encyclopedia Britannica.

"...because you can't think of any other reason that they might?"

No. I'm completely dry.

"The only people that I know that use Firefox (remember, it is still a very small percentage), are geeks (who would know why Firefox is "better"), and relatives of geeks that were told to switch, so that said geek no longer has to do spyware support."

I wish you would have been here by my side to have furnished me with this incredibly accurate and reliable demographic information. I might not have come off like such an opinionated big-nosed man of French descent if that had been the case.

"Outside of those 2 groups, who else even knows what a browser is?"

Geez... Now that I think of it... *NOBODY*.

Wow. This is really changing my perspective on shit, man.

Wow.

Heavy.

"Sure, people use them all the time, but I don't think they are aware of it."

Dude! You're right!

They think they're making orange juice!

Or repairing bicycles!

Or something else - but *certainly* not browsing.

"So I have a hard time believing that there is a mass of people that chose to switch without knowing why."

Of course. If I had your facts and figures at *my* disposal, I would have a very difficult time believing, myself.

"Just like I have a hard time believing there are a bunch of 'non-geeks' that switched to linux to bash Microsoft."

Totally. I used to think this was true only because I knew people who had done it, but through your eyes, I can see the truth bare, naked, and waiting for me with its legs spread.

Thanks for showing a brother the way.

"1) non-geeks wouldnt know what linux is"

Maybe they think Linux is the oranges with which they're making the orange juice that's actually a browser?

Or something.

"2) non-geeks wouldn't be able to switch to linux, because it just isn't that easy."

Tell me about it. When I installed Mandrake with five clicks, they were some of the toughest clicks I had ever made in my life.

I don't know what it is about Linux installs, but I completely lose my ability to accurately click. It's horrible.

What those other poor people must be going through...

[shakes head]

"I would guess that if you talked to all of these individuals"

Like you did, of course.

"you would find out that they really do have reasons for switching - maybe they aren't all technical reasons, but I bet none of them have to do with being fashionable or cool."

Again, I stand corrected, and I thank you for opening mine eyes to the glory of the Truth.

Hallelujah.
February 1, 2005 8:14 PM
 

megame said:

"I have never heard of anyone switching browsers because of "fashion". Are you sure they really exist?"
Yes - just look at any desktop around you (geek or non-geek - rarely pros) and you will find a lot of shareware/freeware/crapware which is installed because – they've heard that it is good, and it is supposed to do something... (I've found machines with multiply installations of same-purpose utilities (firewalls/AVs/etc.) – most of them disabling the other or simply making OS crawl).

“So I have a hard time believing that there is a mass of people that chose to switch without knowing why. Just like I have a hard time believing there are a bunch of "non-geeks" that switched to linux to bash Microsoft. 1) non-geeks wouldnt know what linux is and 2) non-geeks wouldn't be able to switch to linux, because it just isn't that easy.”
No – you’re right - non-geeks would not even care about OS :> But being geek does not mean that they know product they are using or criticizing. I’ve met only one person who was pro-Linux and did know Windows – most of Linux-lovers and MS-bashers do not think that there is more to Windows then “Advanced…” button will show you. You can get these augments from them:
- Windows XP is another patch of 9x and is mostly 16bit – Linux is fully 32bit!
- Windows cannot be remotely administered
- Linux file systems are better then NTFS because they have
o Security
o Quotas
o Journaling
o Some magic which makes them immune to fragmenting
- You cannot configure some more-advanced Windows features without expensive utilities
- Linux has everything Windows has and more (this was said to me when most Linux H/W HOTOs where in format of: Open Windows 9x and note how Windows does it – and then tell Linux how to do it – PnP) – not to motion that Linux has recently obtained some features Windows will never have - like:
o Access Control Lists
o Async IO (not yet implemented for all objects in Kernel but it is work in progress)
o Ability to use multiply and custom file systems
o Etc.

Now I know and I guess that all of us have heard of reasons for using or even switching to Firefox – but anti-MS crowd is so loud that most people are being insulted for using MS products – I have conversations like this all the time:
- So, I heard form [person] that you are computer expert and good C++ programmer!
- Something like that.
- (some chat here)
- You must LOVE [Linux/Firefox/Java/any-non-MS-product]?
- Nope – I use eq. MS products.
- But – I’ve thought you where smart and cool – I’m so disappointed with you.
February 2, 2005 10:39 AM
 

George Clingerman said:

All of this talk is all well and good but let me present some hard hitting evidence that Firefox is coming into its own.

I too once thought it was just for programmers and computer geeks until I went back home. See I'm originally from Central Pennsylvania and that's all farm country.

I remember when I went to college (that was 96-00) and the internet was JUST coming into the area (I booted up with 5 1/4 floppies on Apple IIg’s in my classroom my senior year in 1996, I didn't even know windows existed (boy was I shocked when I got to college as a computer science major)) how the townspeople wanted to ban that Satanic thing that got little boys and girls kidnapped and molested.

Well, I went home late last year for a visit and guess what, my cousins were using Firefox, and it was on every computer in every home I went to. I don't send technology home; I never even mentioned it to anyone. Yet when I logged on there it was (along with a lot of other programs I wouldn't have expected a non-techie to have).

So maybe people did switch because it's "fashionable" Rory, but if it's become fashionable in farm country, I'd say it's more than just a fad.

And those are MY *facts*.
February 3, 2005 4:00 PM
 

Josh said:

Wow, I guess that came across wrong. I should spend more time working on the tone of my comments.

The tone I was "trying" to project (and obviously failed miserably, based on your response), was that I couldn't believe there were really people like that... I was not STATING that there are not people like that. I guess I was asking you to second guess your impressions - think about why you may have come to those conclusions, but I certainly wasn't trying to say you were wrong if you have to cold hard facts.

And then
""1) non-geeks wouldnt know what linux is"
Maybe they think Linux is the oranges with which they're making the orange juice that's actually a browser? "

The point was that if you know what linux *is*, you are probably a geek. So once you know what it is, you are out of the non-geek category. Heck, if you know what an operating system is, you are probably a geek.

And just because a linux distro may be easy to install, doesn't mean it is easy to transition from Windows. Yes, you have a lot of apps that do a lot of similar things, but unless you are a geek, (and even if you are), its going to take some work to find all of the corresponding actions/applications. That's what I meant by it not being easy to switch.

Don't you think? I'm guessing I just got you going and you wanted to disagree with everything I said.
February 3, 2005 4:02 PM
 

George said:

Josh -

"The point was that if you know what linux *is*, you are probably a geek. So once you know what it is, you are out of the non-geek category. Heck, if you know what an operating system is, you are probably a geek."

I'd just like to point out that in my post above I have shown that non-geeks have entered the techie world. They know browsers, they know virus scanners, they know OS's, they aren't scared of them and they're willing to trash their computers because they backup and know how to reinstall everything. My cousins and friends don't spend hours in front of the computer, they are state champion wrestlers and high scoring basketball players and only average students, yet they know all the secret knowledge I felt I had (other than programming, I still have my programming don't I precious).

I think the line of geek has been redrawn in the sand and we all have missed it.
February 3, 2005 4:16 PM
 

Chris said:

But....

...Firefox makes me a better person.

and it's totally my wingman when i'm out getting the girls.
February 22, 2005 12:28 AM
 

Sharath Raghavan said:

Hello All

I dont know what all of you are on about. Fashion and Geeks and Lines in the sand and Pro -wrestlers . Fact is .. Choice is Good. thats it. If someone wishes to use x browser because of y reason (Fashion, Girlfriends mothers cousin 's dog's vet uses it , etc etc etc ) he should be able to . That is it . period.Never mind Microsoft Bashing , or GNU or geek speek or whatever the hell else you guys are talking about ... that is the important thing. Firefox gives you a choice. For whatever reason . The reasons dont need to be justified to anyone.
March 15, 2005 10:31 AM
 

Yokohama Mamma said:

What a bunch of losers.
December 30, 2005 9:47 PM
 

Bill said:

Microsoft got comfortable, and Google and Firefox are still hungry, NOT COMFORTABLE. The Bill Gates vision of owning the internet is thanfully over. The way you present this is very odd. Like a schoolboy saying I am gonna kick yur ass, cause anyone who uses, what your are using is an idiot, and I do not want to hear about it.
I am not boasting about Firefox. I am merely surfin the web. With a better browser. Very configurable, by the way!
December 31, 2005 2:16 AM
 

Darren Winsper said:

"The FireFox folks said they would have 10% of all WWW surfers by the end of 2004"
No they didn't. Since you weren't paying attention, I'll recap for you. The folks at Mozilla were *aiming* for 10% at the end of *2005*. Not once did they say "we *will* have this market share".
January 1, 2006 5:04 PM
 

DuxBaron said:

I have downloaded Firefox several times and tried it extensively. Each time it has resulted in my having to do a system restore or remove it and caused a host of other problems. While I while agree that I like the tabbed feature, the ability to alphabetize lists within the browser and also feel it is a good, fast browser (whereas IE6 is so slow sometimes that it really does give me gray hair), until it can at least function as well as IE, I'm not switching back.
January 3, 2006 12:46 PM
 

Limulus said:

Yet the cool thing was that they actually *did* made it to 10% by the end of 2005: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051103-5525.html
January 3, 2006 1:30 PM
 

marytee said:

Tabs, tabs, tabs. Closer conformance to standards.

Actually, Konqueror is a pretty good browswer, too.

For built-in customizing ability, Opera wins.

For Old and Boring...MSIE.
January 4, 2006 10:49 AM
 

Andrew said:

So what you're saying, marytee, is that you switched to firefox because of tabs, and standards compliance. Since when did standards compliance make your browsing experience better? I run IE7 Beta 1, and it runs just fine, WITH tabs, AND a google search box in the top right hand corner. Firefox really doesn't have anything extra that I need, and isn't supported as closely with MS products.
January 5, 2006 10:30 AM
 

Oli said:

Andrew, standards compliance does make the browsing experience better. Why? Because when people code to standards it makes pages accessible to everyone. It shouldn't matter whether you're running Safari,Firefox,IE or you are blind or deaf. The web is supposed to be accessible!
January 5, 2006 12:39 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Rory and Firefox Pomposity
January 31, 2005 6:43 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Firefox Pomposity
February 14, 2005 8:19 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 - My Two Cents
January 19, 2006 10:13 PM
 

AnferTuto said:

Hola faretaste
mekodinosad
July 27, 2007 6:16 PM
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About Rory

I *own* this site, you loser.