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Virtual Folders - A great Vista feature with a stupid name

I’ve decided that it’s been a little too long since I’ve nearly gotten myself fired, so here goes.

Like just about every other Microsoft employee on the planet right now, I’m interested in the success of Vista (for those of you who are living under rocks and don’t read anything but my site for your news and worldly updates (a terrifying idea), Vista is the next release of the Windows Operating system).

A lot of the features being added to Vista are user features. Things like Aero, the new search stuff, and…

…”Virtual Folders.”

This is one of those releases that ought to make computing easier and more pleasant for everybody. Not just geeks, but my parents, my friends, and the homeless people who get on the net down at my local library.

Everybody.

(Side note: This is what all software (free and proprietary – Linux, OS X, Windows, Solaris, etc.) should be doing – making life easier.)

Here’s my problem.

Chances are, you’re a geek. I know I have a few “liberal arts” readers, but most of you probably found me through Joel or Scoble or Chris, and you probably have some aptitude (or at least dedicated passion and patience) for this computer stuff.

Further chances are that, when you hear the phrase “Virtual Folder,” you can kind of “get it.” The word “virtual” is a very geek-oriented word.

It is not something that makes a lot of sense to people who don’t spend all day at their desks, clicking on things. It’s crazy, I know, but there are people out there who go to the park on sunny days, walk their dogs, and eat in public places while conversing with other human beings. To them, the word “virtual” is probably not all that meaningful.

That’s why, while reading this look at Vista over at O’Reilly [this page and this page have Virtual Folder info], I got a little scared.

Here’s a snippet of the article:

A new feature in Windows Vista Beta 1 is virtual folders. Before we look at examples, it helps to think of virtual folders as shortcuts in Windows XP. A shortcut is basically a file that points to the actual location of a file. Shortcuts allow you to quickly locate a file without needing to know where it is physically stored. Microsoft has brought this concept to Windows Vista in an attempt to make the organization of files easy to understand. Unfortunately, I think this is likely to confuse many new users, and it took me some time before I really understood how it works. And there are still times I think I am a little confused.

I wish I could blame this paragraph on the average stupidity of O’Reilly writers, but that would be a little tough to do since they’re all pretty bloody smart. And, if this is a feature that seems a little convoluted to O’Reilly writers, then what hope does my father, in spite of his IQ of about about 5,000, have of understanding it?

It might sound like I’m oversimplifying, but I think part of the problem is the name. Every time I hear something about “Virtual Folders,” it’s preceded by an explanation like the one above.

The truth is that Virtual Folders aren’t complicated. They’re just “saved” searches. Or search folders. Or whatever. It’s a cool feature, and it’s something I’m going to use regularly.

But putting the word “Virtual” in front pushes people to make explanations that usually relate back to shortcuts. That’s fine for us geeks, but not for the rest of the world. My mom doesn’t know what a shortcut is (unless you mean driving your car through the bushes to get to the store faster), so she’s not going to understand an explanation of a “virtual” folder based on an understanding of shortcuts. She doesn’t have the foundation. Most users don’t.

If the whole point is to shield users from the (relative) complexity of understanding the hierarchical file/folder abstraction, then why do we draw their attention to it by calling these things “virtual” folders? By calling them “virtual,” we’re already giving away more information than users need – we’re asking them to think about the implementation which is exactly what we’re trying to avoid in the first place.

Why don’t we call them “Search Folders?”

Or, how about getting some mileage out of the new Windows name. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines “vista” like this:

a distant view through or along an avenue or opening

That’s practically what a “Virtual Folder” is. Why not call these things “Vistas?”

Maybe that’s not the best name in the universe, but at least it’s consistent with the new release, and it has a little marketing flair to it. It will at least get people focused on how to use the feature rather than what the feature is really doing.

Really, though. At the very least, we ought to call these suckers “Search Folders.”

The word “virtual” just doesn’t make sense. It complicates things.

Here’s what I’m asking of you: If you agree, and if you give a damn, and if you’d like to help to try to remedy this, then comment or write about it. If I can send an email to the right person internally with a strong enough group of voices, then maybe something will happen.

Of course, I might not still have a job tomorrow morning, but that’s another issue.

I don’t work on the product, and it’s easy for me to complain, so I want to make it clear that I just want what’s best for the users, which will ultimately be what’s best for the company.

And, if you think I’m being a little anal here, consider that this is something that will affect millions of people all over the world. With so many people involved, I think we owe it to them to look at Vista under a microscope and do whatever we can to make life easier.

Published Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:48 PM by Rory

Filed Under: ,

Comments

 

Paul Murphy said:

Are they "Search Folders" though? I probably should know this feature but don't, when I see it I think of a virtual folder being like a shortcut, but not at all - in that you can actually use it like a normal folder.

In Linux, I'd do something like this to createa virtual folder:

ln -s /etc/www/htdocs /usr/paulmur/htdocs

Assuming my memory from 3 years ago is accurate, that would create a "virtual folder" in /usr/paulmur/htdocs that mirrors the folder from /etc/www/htdocs. This lets me touch files and reference them (like a pointer in code) in either folder.

Is that different than the Virtual Folder in Vista?
August 18, 2005 10:26 PM
 

bliz said:

shoot. i always thought they found you from *my* site.

oh, for the name, how about "virtual search folders for your vistas."

um... no.
August 18, 2005 10:36 PM
 

Bogo said:

I'm going to assume that this works much like the "Search Folders" feature in Outlook 2003.

I couldn't agree more, if that is the case "Virtual Folders" is a terrible name. If it's good enough for Outlook, isn't it good enough for the OS? 99.95% of users are going to have no clue what they are used for, and not use them. Either that, or everyone in my family will "figure it out" completely wrong, blowing up their computers in the process and then expect me to come over with a fire-extinguisher.
August 18, 2005 10:40 PM
 

Robbie Coleman said:

Rory,

I second Bogo's comment.

"Search Folders" is the way to go. After all most users already confuse Office and Windows versions and features. How many times did you get the respose of: "I have Windows 97..." when you asked a user what OS they were using?

End of subject!
August 18, 2005 10:45 PM
 

John said:

Rory, even though I totally zoned out while reading your comments on shortcuts, bushes, and vistas I totally agree with what you are saying; there are people out there that like to talk to each other. Now, on about these virtual thingies, "Vistas" would be an excellent name for them considering the competition has the whole Africa thing going on. But then again, you could call them Durmas and it wouldn't have made them any less confusing.

People need to be able to relate something to something else, its how we get around. It may well be violently wrong but then again, so is losing an argument to a plant (unless its a rubber tree plant, then you were just asking for it). You see, people can equate a shortcut (a real one, not the ones I give people that ask for directions at an intersection just as the light turns green) to something that is going to make their job less taxing on the meat. And even if the Gnomes of Microsoft commanded a change, they would still be related to shortcuts, and people would complain about them not being called "Virtual Folders" and the (s)Mac addicts would be complaining that Microsoft was trying to weasle in on theiir competition by using a name for something that could be considered in the same line as Apple is taking (Safari, Tiger, Pather; I'm still waiting for the Pigmy version of iTunes).

I dozed off glossing over what I just wrote and if my point is even milky clear, I'm satisfied. And props on the blog from your number eight fan!

John
August 18, 2005 10:45 PM
 

Rory said:

Paul -

"Is that different than the Virtual Folder in Vista?"

Completely.

Virtual Folders are "views" (or, if you like (and bliz doesn't :), "vistas") of your information.

You might have a Virtual Folder which presents you with all the PowerPoint files on your drive (<playfulJab>and you're a manager, so you probably have a lot of these</playfulJab>).

You can do a search from the Explorer toolbar and then "save" it as a Virtual Folder, so you might even have a Virtual Folder of all files beginning with the letter "A."

It's a cool feature, and people are going to want to use it.

They just aren't going to know it's there because the name doesn't even begin to communicate what's happening.

Your comments alone point out the issue here - you're a techie (<playfulJabNumberTwo>in spite of being a manager</playfulJabNumberTwo>), and you immediately thought of creating a directory link in Linux, when that isn't how the feature works at all.
August 18, 2005 10:46 PM
 

Rory said:

bliz -

"oh, for the name, how about 'virtual search folders for your vistas.'"

Well, change out of the g-string and stop tanning in the Tampa sun for a few minutes and think up a new name, you bastard!

P.S. You better be at the PDC.
August 18, 2005 10:47 PM
 

David said:

This is interesting. It seems that Microsoft are trying to make the computing world easier for Average Joe (a good thing!). A prime example is Scobbles latest pet peeve - the "Web Feed". Scobble being the prolific blogger he is would prefer everyone use the term RSS. This is all well and good but look at just how long it took the real (i.e. non geek) world get get a grasp of MP3. As such, Micosoft want to refer to it as a web feed which is a concept that pretty much descibes what it does on the tin.

As such, I agree with what Microsoft are trying to do with "virtual folders", however the name as you point out is wrong, sucks and will confuse Mr. A Joe from some city somewhere.
August 18, 2005 10:51 PM
 

StephenHJ said:

Hmm. Kind of hard to define. Virtual Folders can be based from a file search, but is that the only way to define them? Not trying to invalidate the the "Search Folder" idea, but maybe there is more to it than just "Saved Search". It sounds a little bit similar to Apple iTunes "Smart Playlist" in some aspects (which really are just Search groupings including extended attributes... so maybe you are right.)
August 18, 2005 10:55 PM
 

Scott said:

Technically, they can still change the name to "search folders" since Apple called THEIR search folders "Smart Folders".

What exactly is wrong with the name "search folders"? The big two seem to be avoiding that name like the last woman at the bar at closing time. Is it because it makes too much SENSE? Confuses the marketers?
August 18, 2005 11:00 PM
 

Fred said:

I immediately thought "ln -s" too, but the functionality you've described is more like Outlook 2003's search folders. Which are called "Search Folders," and should carry some weight for naming Vista's folders similarly, for the sake of consistency.

August 18, 2005 11:24 PM
 

JasonF said:

I can see the concept of a virtual folder be sort of like what Categories were (are?) in Sharepoint: Even though the files are "physically" stored in only one location, you can have them appear in any number of other "virtual folders" by simply assigning them to Categories. The benefit is that you have different views into your collection of content without having multiple copies of the same content.

Categories, though, are not the result of a search, per se. Well, maybe they are as implementated (WHERE metadataProperty CONTAINS categoryName). So, maybe a better name for this functionality is "Category"???
August 18, 2005 11:44 PM
 

Donny Baker said:

Virtual Folders suck. I swear to God they do.
August 18, 2005 11:50 PM
 

Dean Harding said:

Well, we all know Microsoft just have a bunch of monkeys working on typewriters to name things. At least "Virtual Folders" are better than "Windows Presentation Framework" or whatever the hell Avalon is being called now...

But I digress. +1 for calling them "Search Folders" from me, too.
August 18, 2005 11:58 PM
 

Matthew said:

Nice article Rory, and I agree with you completely.
August 19, 2005 12:50 AM
 

Paul Murphy said:

Ahh, touché. Well in that case the definition of virtual is: used to describe a particle whose existence is suggested to explain observed phenomena but is not proven or directly observable... which makes sense.

If you're still confused, just think of "it" as a particle whose existence is suggested to explain observed phenomena but is not proven or directly observable folder.
August 19, 2005 12:52 AM
 

bliz said:

ok. a challenge from the french descendant... a better name than my first attempt.... um... uh... and it can't have the word "thingy" in it...

"purse" - women will immediately know what it's about. usage: "i put the letter i typed in my purse so i can find it later. it's right in there with the pictures of tom jones."

it's not at all technical. it's understood by 50% of people in the world. naming problem solved. you're welcome.

and i do my tanning in the buff. (the neighbors are pissed.)

alas, no pdc for me.
August 19, 2005 1:38 AM
 

Daruku said:

Ha remembber the briefcase? Ya don't like "Virtual Folders" at all. Kinda like "Vistas" but takes away the meaning for the Vista release. What about "Remote Folders"?
August 19, 2005 1:58 AM
 

Chris Sells said:

You're questioning Microsoft's ability to name stuff?!? This is the company that named ActiveX, OleEverything and Bob. Who are we to question their naming genius?!?

Maybe we could call them Xfolders? I here X is cool... Or maybe Folder360s? : )
August 19, 2005 2:06 AM
 

Michael said:

You're bang on Rory. My vote to Search Folders.
August 19, 2005 2:18 AM
 

bliz said:

"Vista Views"
August 19, 2005 2:36 AM
 

Rory said:

bliz -

"Vista Views"

That sounds like a retirement home.

C'mon, man! I liked "purse" better.
August 19, 2005 3:10 AM
 

David said:

I'm with Bogo, make it like Outlook 2003. Why explain the feature twice when you can say "It's just like in Outlook but it's for your entire file system and not just your email".

I mean - I've had Outlook 2003 for a couple years. It's easy to compare it to that.
August 19, 2005 3:13 AM
 

Minh said:

"Search Founds"
August 19, 2005 5:02 AM
 

Haacked said:

I like the idea of ripping off apple and calling them "Smart Folders". It's understandable. This folder is smart somehow.

Or, if you don't like ripping off apple, call them "Intelligent Folders".

Or, "Folders that display files based on some criteria you provided" or "Ftdfboscyp" for short.
August 19, 2005 6:59 AM
 

Steve said:

My vote is "Saved Searches".

I do a search. I save it. I have a saved search.
August 19, 2005 7:48 AM
 

Stevie said:

One more vote for anything other than "Virtual Folders"! I particularly like bliz'z ideas! ;)
August 19, 2005 8:38 AM
 

David said:

In my experience, there are a significant number of non-technical users who find even the concept of folders to be confusing. Everything they save is dumped into My Documents.
Virtual Folders will mean nothing to them. I think, therefore, that Steve's suggestion of "Saved Searchs" is a good idea.
August 19, 2005 8:44 AM
 

Karl said:

Why differentiate between regular folders and ‘virtual’ folders? The only difference should be the way they are created, the rest should be seamless. Wouldn’t that provide the most consistent user experience?

While we are on the topic, what’s with the ‘Click here to view the absolute path’ (Figure 8, page 2)? Do regular users really need to know this? Have they not been getting on just fine not knowing where My Documents actually lives?

Having said all of this, if you have to call it something (if only for marketing purposes) ‘Search Folders’ is far and away better than ‘Virtual Folders’.
August 19, 2005 10:06 AM
 

bliz said:

"Coffee Table(TM)"

"Hope chest"

"Goodie bag"

"Trunk"

"Expando Folder"

"Leather Binder"

"Strapless bra"
August 19, 2005 10:18 AM
 

John said:

I'm gonna have to go along with David a little here, "My Documents" seems to be resvoir for user's junk so why not follow that vein in creating an amalgum of the snerch (search, whatever) criteria and prepend with 'My'. Bang, you have "My Folders that start with the letter 'A'", "My porn not including bitmaps of my dog", and for the power users out there "My *an.pdl /s"
August 19, 2005 11:08 AM
 

Josh said:

How about "Quick Access Folder" or QuAF for short.

August 19, 2005 11:47 AM
 

Jen said:

I'm worse than a liberal arts type; I'm a fine arts type. However, I agree with you. As a complete nongeek, I would just as soon not be confused by the word "virtual," EVER, not even at the movies, much less so when I'm using my computer.

To drive the point home, I shamelessly admit that I still have no idea what tabbed browsing is, or how it could possibly be any better than untabbed browsing, and I don't CARE!

I found your blog through a comment you left in another blog regarding Ambien.

Even when you're being all geeky, you're interesting and funny.
August 19, 2005 7:29 PM
 

Pete said:

Why not just call 'em "Collections"
August 19, 2005 7:46 PM
 

Jeremy Brayton said:

bliz:
Purse
"Coffee Table(TM)"
"Hope chest"
"Goodie bag"
"Trunk"
"Expando Folder"
"Leather Binder"
"Strapless bra"

You forgot one: My Briefcase. Remember that useless crap? Purse and everything else suggests that "thing never used which we hardly remember".

It's not really a collection of folders or anything. It's more like a logical grouping that can exist anywhere unless they just lump them all into "Search Folders"\Yadda or whatever, kinda of like the Offline folder (argh? Who's bright idea was it to have 1 folder with millions of files in it with no hierarchy?).

Is it ONLY defined through a search? Can you not select multiple files, right click, then click "Put into Virtual Folder" or something? Searches are cool but for some of us who use hierarchy, categories, and organization to find files, search is not my holy grail. It's as if we're working for a day where all files can be placed on one partition, in one folder, and we use search to find what we want.

They may not be able to call it Search Folders because it's used in Outlook. Yeah it's similar functionality but since Outlook had it first, they have dibs on the more logical name. Maybe it's a patent infringement?
August 19, 2005 7:57 PM
 

Charlie said:

Preach on brother man. I couldn't agree with you more.

Also, while we are at it, if they name another friggen thing 'My' I swear to god I will hit someone in the face with a shovel.

August 19, 2005 8:13 PM
 

Charlie said:

Let's face the facts though... Virtual folders will probably fall under the 'It takes me more then 5 seconds, forget it’ philosophy that most non geek users tend to fall back on.

Think of briefcases. They rock my socks. But does my mother use it? Probably not. Not even my uncle who owns his own business and works on files both at home and the office. Why? Because he didn't even really know about it. He just thought that it was just a fancy name for a folder for people who like to feel self important.

Now he knows, and he still doesn't use them. Why? Because he is anal and likes to do things manually. He thinks that it will screw something up.

Since I program on my own on different machines, it's almost like source control for me.

I guess I'm basically saying that I think that there is too much worrying about pizzazz and cutesy names and making sure everything is nice and simple for the common folk. Maybe MS should just call an orange an orange. That or make profiles for the type of person you are like they do with layouts in VS.

I could probably rant on this for hours, but I won't. I think it's pretty pointless and won't make a difference anyway. Sort of like the whole idea of getting a version of Windows Server without a graphical UI, although most companies with more then one server don't need a GUI. Especially considering how everything is about caching and other memory mediums now.

Ok I guess I'm done.
August 19, 2005 8:27 PM
 

TheZeven said:

... I just had to comment that I just ranting to a colleague about Rory's site showing me an error for the past couple of hours. Rory... Your site was mean to me and wouldn't let me see it!


On another note. Virtual Folders. ... Eh.. Just... No.
August 19, 2005 8:48 PM
 

domus.vita said:

How about "small rocks"? Or "small virtual rocks"?
August 19, 2005 8:57 PM
 

Stefan Kratz said:

True: 'Virtual Folder' is a BAD NAME.

Calling it 'Search Folders' might work, but 'Vistas' i kinda neat.
August 19, 2005 10:28 PM
 

JasonF said:

"C'mon, man! I liked "purse" better. "

Chris Sells might say (after running around in his kilt): "It's not a purse... It's a sporran"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporran
August 19, 2005 11:32 PM
 

Daniel Egan said:

So what happens to me if I like the name?? :]

Although Vista Folders is cool too!!!
August 19, 2005 11:38 PM
 

Rory said:

Daniel -

"Vista Folder" - that's my favorite so far.
August 20, 2005 12:02 AM
 

guyincognito said:

but... "virtual folder" is really what they are and is an appropriate name.

calling them "search folders" is not techincally correct, because the are not the result of a past search, they are dynamic.

i think they are an awesome idea and can't wait to have a common virtual folder for all my porn (it fills up more than one folder and more than one drive).

one can only hope that they are performant enough to be useable... i would imagine winfs (whenever it's ready) will help out, but for now i bet we're stuck with indexing server or whatever the msn desktop search uses. blah :(

oh a decent explanation of what they are...
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_virtualfolders.asp

August 20, 2005 1:21 AM
 

Daruku said:

M$ is always names stuff dumb.
ex.
Windows = OS that shows data in windows
SQL Server = (any explanation needed?)
Internet Explorer = App to explore the internet
Word = App that lets you type words

I am sure there are more examples but I don't want to think...
August 20, 2005 1:43 AM
 

Carl Franklin said:

I agree.

However, I think using the term "Vistas" for something that will live beyond the life of the product isn't wise. "Search Folders" has my vote.

Carl
August 20, 2005 6:30 PM
 

bliz said:

"kitchen drawer"
"compfy spot"
"baggie"
"litter box"
"file coozie"
August 20, 2005 11:10 PM
 

Shannon J Hager said:

virtual folders is a terrible name for a great thing. I think they should stick with one of the names currently used by any of the software that currently has this feature. Smart folder, search folder, anything except virtual folders (or vistas).
August 20, 2005 11:56 PM
 

Cameron McBride said:

Very good point. I agree, it should be cosistant with Outlook.
August 21, 2005 2:21 AM
 

Vasanth said:

August 21, 2005 4:21 AM
 

Vasanth said:

+1 for search folders. Consistency with Outlook is important.

Sorry about the last post.
August 21, 2005 4:24 AM
 

Scott said:

Heck, I think they should call them "WinFS data stores".

but I'm just bitter. >:(
August 21, 2005 4:35 AM
 

Joe Chung said:

I thought they were going to call them "stacks," not "virtual folders"? Not that "stacks" is a better name for it.
August 21, 2005 6:12 AM
 

Keith Hill said:

Yeah Virtual Folders is a bit techie. How about iFolders? :-) Nah, I bet Apple probably has it trademarked. Not sure I like Search Folders or Vistas though. It seems these are more like organizers. Hmm, maybe Document Organizers?
August 21, 2005 6:14 AM
 

Chris Grande said:

Someone above mentioned that they should just rip off Apple and call them "Smart Folders" while they could, I doubt that would help Windows users understand the feature any better; let me explain. Microsoft could create the same feature in the 5 products they would all be named differently all look different and all be located in different areas of the application. Apple on the other created a feature about 3 years ago in iTunes and called them "Smart Playlists" they created a look for it a purple playlist icon with a gear and a UI for building searches. Users of iTunes found the feature and used it, Apple then added it to iPhoto called it "Smart Albums" took the album icon made it purple added the gear used the same UI for building the search. Now a user of iTunes gets a new version of iPhoto and now completely understands the concept and implementation and can use the feature. What ended up happening is other application venders began using the same UI and found that their users just got the feature and didn't need any special training. So now in Tiger there is basically "Smart Everything" and they all basically use the same UI, naming and implementation scheme. So again just like the user who understood iTunes they see something called "Smart Folders" which uses the same UI found in iTunes and they can just use the feature. While Apple does most things in this type of logical fashion Microsoft is usually the complete opposite.
August 21, 2005 8:22 AM
 

Dot Mike said:

They really should be called Smart Folders.

Why?

1) because the term describes them much better than "virtual"
2) because iTunes is a very popular Windows program and has established the term and concept of "smart lists" in people's minds, even if it probably wasn't the first program to use them
3) because it's casual enough to sound friendly and get people to use what could be a slightly difficult concept to grasp

Apple couldn't sue over the use of the name because:

1) the words are generic, just taken from a dictionary
2) they would need to have trademarked it previously, which they haven't
3) there is probably prior art in other programs anyway
4) stuff 'em!

Besides, these days more and more people know about Mac OS X even if they don't use it.

When Windows first came out, Microsoft didn't choose different names for MENUS, WINDOWS, ICONS, FOLDERS, etc, so why should they now?
August 21, 2005 9:10 AM
 

Thomas Johansson said:

Search Folders is definitely the way to go.

Smart Folders again divert from what they do.
August 21, 2005 12:00 PM
 

Thierry said:

"Virtual folder" already sounds so old-fashioned, please don't forget MS must show the WAY to the WHOLE world.
"Nanotube folder" would not sound better...

Sorry, I'm not a marketing man & as usual, frenchies often know what you HAVE NOT to do, but don't find out the solution.

Thanx for the blog! & xcuse my bad english,
From an old CPM (...and so, MS-DOS) user, in France.
August 21, 2005 1:36 PM
 

Carolus Holman said:

How about canning the most popular Searches into the Virtual Folders, .doc/.xls/.jpg/ etc. Each application package could have it's own VirFol PhotoShop/office/Dreamweaver etc.


Rory, I don't hate the name virtual folder, what I hate is the Sideways metaphor in the picture, real world, who sets their folders on end like that? That in itself is more confusing than any name!
August 21, 2005 3:48 PM
 

Jim Gaynor said:

The problem, really, isn't the name.

It's simply that most users - even technically adept users - still mentally map files/data like physical resource. That is, they can only exist in one place at a time unless you make a duplicate. It's something I run into frequently with clients in web development - who equate web navigation to a physical folder heirarchy and get very confused when you tell them that the logical web navigation doesn't have to have anything to do with where the files are on the server. :)
August 21, 2005 4:24 PM
 

paul said:


I'm surprised o'reilly writers couldn't come up with a better description than that. Apple's smart folders (the saved spotlight searches) have been described much better, more succinctly than this and are essentially the same thing. In fact, I'm sure I've seen o'reilly articles on Tiger describe spotlight and smart folders better than that lame description. Smart Search. Dynamic Folder? Come on, there's got to be something better.
August 21, 2005 8:49 PM
 

bliz said:

"egg cartons"
"box o' stuff"
"clouds"
"cubbyhole"
August 21, 2005 11:10 PM
 

Rory said:

bliz -

Never mind, damn it! Go back to tanning in your thong!
August 22, 2005 12:35 AM
 

BradC said:

Ok, how come I've used Outlook 2003 for a year and never even HEARD of "Search Folders" ???

Oh, but could each user change their "Purse" to match their outfit?? :)
August 22, 2005 12:51 AM
 

guyincognito said:

how about tackling some real issues? like bringing back the 'microsoft natural pro keyboard'?!?!

- not the one with the 'f-lock' and oversized 'delete' keys!

- not the one with the midget function and arrow keys!


August 22, 2005 1:04 AM
 

Dot Mike said:

The problem with search in "search folders" is that it sounds like a verb in a verb-action command.

Whereas smart in "Smart folders" immediately sounds like an adjective: the word describes the type of folder, which is what we want.

Now everyone here knows that they are really "search(ed) folders" but the average user needs some prompting to realize they can be treated as folders, just a special kind that change dynamically according to intelligent criteria.

However, if we have to use it instead of smart, it should really be "Searched Folders."
August 22, 2005 1:29 AM
 

Anonymous said:

I have not seen it but it sounds like "virtual directories" in IIS. A lot of guys ask "If I delete the virtual directory in IIS will I loose my folders too?" If web geeks get confused with virtaul directories in IIS won't the average joe be really confused with the name "virtual folders"?

How about calling it Vista "vlinks", or "linkit", or "VistaLinks" or "virtual links"?

My $.02,

John S.
August 22, 2005 3:41 AM
 

Mike Woodhouse said:

How about putting the feature in front of a bunch of non-geek users, explaining what it does, letting them play with it for a while and then asking them for a one- or two-word description of what they've just used?

Don't try to brand the damn thing, don't try to sex it up. Just get a name for it that best describes what it does to the other 98% of Windows users. Us geeks don't (well, shouldn't) care what it's called - if it's cool and useful, we'll just use it anyway.
August 22, 2005 8:31 AM
 

Anthony Moulden said:

How about calling them File Filters. And having an icon on the desktop called My File Filters.
It explains what it does and its even got alliteration. What more do you need.
I will collect my royalties later.
August 22, 2005 11:47 AM
 

dnardoza said:

Sounds like they are saved queries, not that anyone would know what that is. If I understand this correctly, if you create a folder that has a listing of all docs that pertain to a specific topic like Thermal Nuclear War, whenever you need to look up that subject you just pull up the saved query or search. Now I’m hoping this would have some sort of updating feature so if you create a new doc called War Games (don’t ask why I’m referencing this movie, it just popped into my head) next time you went to your virtual folder called TNW (Thermal Nuclear War, for those thought it might have been Tiny Naked Walruses) it would have all related docs including any new ones. Which would be pretty cool. I’m also thinking you could put the same document in other virtual folders that it would pertain to, like CEM (Cheesy Eighties Movies).

Another question, would you be able to categorize a document in multiple ways upon saving or is it found through a search that requires a list of topic key words?

The whole thing sound like database management to me, although your average user isn’t going to know how to draw those parallels either, but I think that’s closer to the entrance then ‘Virtual Folders’ Most people are familiar with libraries and how they work, why not go with that angle? Like the old Title, Subject, Author card system, it’s a card catalog system without the ripped bottoms that keeps the cards from staying connected to the draw.

Most people know what a cataloging system is, no it doesn’t have the flare that Virtual Folders has, but people sure as shit would know what the hell you mean by it. If you need high tech go with Virtual Catalog. The word folder shouldn’t even be used. In the beginning people had to learn what a folder was, then they created tons of them and lost all their documents. Folders aren’t scalable even if people don’t realize that’s why they drive them nuts.

Virtual Cataloging, that’s what’s going on, screw the folder theme. Google knew from the start Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS), people like when a program does what it’s suppose to do, and that’s make life easier, not harder.

And while on the subject of Google, a somewhat random thought, my prediction is they are going to come up with an OS that is so simple grandmoms everywhere will be able to use it, it’s just a matter of time.
August 22, 2005 1:09 PM
 

Asd said:

Hmmm. They are kinda like Database views but I don't think that would help non-techie types.
I reckon File Collections or something like that is the best option.
August 22, 2005 1:41 PM
 

Zeus said:

Okay, so you could see the same file listed in one or more Virtual Folders, right? Kinda sounds like how you look things up at the library (remember that place?)

So, if that is the case, and you want to help people who are non-technical (ie, OLD people) then why not call them Dewey Folders? Or something actually clever, but harkening back to the days of the card catalog...

August 22, 2005 7:02 PM
 

AndyC said:

Virtual folders - boo!
Search folders - maybe.
Magic Folders!!! - woohoo!
August 22, 2005 7:29 PM
 

bliz said:

Whew. About damn time. Thank you.
August 22, 2005 8:22 PM
 

genardo said:

Medley Folders
August 22, 2005 10:06 PM
 

Curt said:

I agree, "virtual folder" bites.

And "search" has the connotation of being slow or taking time, which doesn't seem appropriate to the functionality (or is it? ;).

I like "view folder" or "view." Does it even have to be called a folder? IS it a folder?

I'd pass on calling them vistas--that name will become stale when Windows v.next.next ships.
August 22, 2005 10:36 PM
 

Paul Sainsbury said:

I vote for a name change. "Search Folders" sounds great, "Vistas" would just be confusing because the average joe would not know the meaning of the word and would probably not be able to relate the meaning to what it does.
August 23, 2005 7:47 AM
 

Alistair Nieuwoudt said:

I think 'Virtual Folders' will complicate things for the average user. I also think 'Search Folders' doesn't suit. I think the name should be related to what the technology actually means to the average user.

Maybe something like 'Organized Files' or 'Related Documents' or 'File Groups'?

Mmm none of them really sound right either, but bottom line is the name should represent what it will actually mean to the common user.
August 23, 2005 11:59 AM
 

Stranger said:

Way to go Curt.

"View" is in line with the whole "Windows" & "Vista" stuff and it's short, catchy and descriptive enough.

August 23, 2005 3:32 PM
 

Nick said:

At first glance I would suggest not even naming them a type of folder at all. I thought the Collection name made the most sense. However the folder metaphor is so ingrained into everyone’s mind that I think we will have to live with it. Remember the old Briefcase feature that never seemed to take off. Maybe if they were called Sync Folders everyone would be using them now.
From what I know about the functionality of the folders it would seem that Search Folder is fairly intuitive name for the feature. Virtual folder is too ambiguous of a name to inform the user to the designed functionality. One vote for Search folder.
August 23, 2005 9:37 PM
 

Jason said:

I'm sold. Add my vote towards calling them Vistas.
August 30, 2005 10:07 PM
 

the Midiot said:

I think "shortcuts" is a good generic name, because it implies, just like shortcuts in reality, that you think it's going to help, but it either leaves you stuck on some obscure mountain road where the bridge washed out, or it fixes the squeaky door just fine, at the cost of the balcony and the entire second floor addition falling off.
September 1, 2005 6:46 PM
 

ludacriskna said:

One layer of abstraction above File Filters:

Data Filters

Yet above that is:

Data Views (Vistas) - essentially, it's about the how users view their data (whatever that may be).

luda.
September 2, 2005 6:52 PM
 

Thomas Dore said:

Aren't these virtual folders going to work like the tags in MyWeb2, etc? If not, that's a pity. The problem with folders is that I want documents to occur in more than one folder. Tags solve this problem. Tagging is a simple concept that everyone gets: you can easily stick plenty of tags on stuff in real life. Simple name, too.
September 9, 2005 10:31 AM
 

Arjuna Krishna-Das said:

I agree with both the original comment and the idea to let a group of these people who walk their dogs on sunny days to have a go and come up with a name. Yes, "Vistas", "Vista folders" and "Saved Searches" all sound good and non-geeky. "Saved searches" has the advantage of already being used, for example I'm using one now to try and find a house to buy on propertyfinder.com. I hope Micros~1 make a better job of this than they did the W95 briefcase and W98 Active desktop/channels.
September 26, 2005 11:58 AM
 

Andrius said:

Damm! Greate future - not great for me.

I'll tell you a secret. I'm not M$ developer and I work solo. Half year ago I sriked out a idea of virtual folders. I started learning Windows Shell programing and other things to go. Everything is created using .NET 1.1. Project is incomplete, but main futures are working already!

And now I decided to look at Vista and here is it - Microsoft's Virtual Folder.

Damm, I waisted time and probably I would not earn money for this :(
I planed for rivals later, but not such big and so soon...
November 30, 2005 1:51 PM
 

Johannes Reiser said:

I agree with both the original comment and the idea to let a group of these people who walk their dogs on sunny days to have a go and come up with a name. Yes, "Vistas", "Vista folders" and "Saved Searches" all sound good and non-geeky. "Saved searches" has the advantage of already being used, for example I'm using one now to try and find a house to buy on propertyfinder.com. I hope Micros~1 make a better job of this than they did the W95 briefcase and W98 Active desktop/channels.
www.memoryxxl.net
February 25, 2006 8:47 AM
 

Manfred Electronik said:

My vote is "Saved Searches".

I save it. I have a saved search. I do a search.
May 31, 2006 10:09 AM
 

Ron said:

I hate virtual folders too.
I'm not even crazy that MS is calling the container a folder. If I create a document in Word, can I save it to a virtual folder that I previously created? Probably not; even though the document might meet the search criteria described by the VF's inards and appear within that VF next time I open it.
June 5, 2006 8:06 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Search Folders?
August 21, 2005 4:30 AM
 

TrackBack said:

Taking risks.
August 21, 2005 5:25 AM
 

TrackBack said:

가상폴더란?
September 23, 2005 1:17 AM
 

Brad said:

Virtual Folders kinda reminds me of Web Folders, which reminds me of Windows 9x which reinds me of Active Desktop. I never used any of those features, if Microsoft call it Virtul Folders i probably wouldn't use them just because of my bad experience with all those technologies that my mind has connected with the word "virtual"
Search Folders has my vote, but anything not beginning with Virtual would be acceptable
November 4, 2006 9:52 PM
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