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Two Types of Software Developers

[Note: This is another personal post. Not in the “I just got not-dumped” vein, but in a “I think this guy is freaking awesome, and I want the world to know it” kind of way. If you really don’t care, then please don’t let me bore you. On the other hand, if you know Carl Franklin, or know of him, and think he deserves laudations as much as I do, then read on my friend…]

There won’t be much in the way of updates this week. I’m back in New London, Connecticut, hanging out with Carl Franklin and generally having a splendid time. It’s weird, because what I’m doing is “work,” but if you’ve ever gotten a chance to “work” with Carl, then you know how bloody cool it can be.

I’m not sure how many of you are developers. My readership has changed a lot over the past year or so, and it seems that there are more and more “secular” readers than ever. I mean, I actually get fan mail from people who barely know how to turn their computers on, if that gives you any idea what demographic I seem to be serving now.

But those of you who are crazy enough to live the strange lifestyle that is the basement-dwelling LCD glow of the software developer will know what I’m talking about in this post.

After we finished working today (I got to co-host an episode of .NET Rocks – it should be out soon), Carl and I went for dinner and then an evening coffee.

I miss the guy. Like crazy. We used to have the best late night conversations, usually fueled by a combination of caffeine, alcohol, and sleep-deprivation. We traded the craziest ideas back and forth and came up with loads of business ideas, some of which actually would have succeeded, but most of which would have just gone up in flames.

Tonight was more of that, except that we’ve both changed a lot since I moved back to the west coast. I’ve had my first real taste of American corporate life, and Carl has managed to take his business further than I, or probably anyone else, ever thought possible. I wish I could bring you people here to tour around his offices and see what he’s built.

What’s great is that Carl recognized a niche several years ago that had pretty much gone unserved: Real developer community.

Yeah, yeah – I know. We’ve always had community in a technical sense, like in the form of USENET, web forums, and the like, but I’m talking about something different.

I started listening to .NET Rocks back when it had just begun. Back when it was Carl and Mark Dunn. Back when there was no intro music, no real structure, and it was just a couple of guys interviewing their developer friends over the phone.

I was hooked immediately. I love software – I love tech – I’m a geek. But I also love people – those bipedal walky things that have feelings and talk and stuff.

Although it grossly oversimplifies the situation, I think there are two (2) types of developers:

1. The developers who take everything seriously, completely lack a sense of humor, and are so concerned about “signal to noise ratio” that they turn down the human until nothing but straight tech information is coming through.

2. The developers who think coding is a fun, creative thing to do, and that it’s perfectly all right to do things like joke, show emotion, and have a pulse while engaging in geeky activities.

I think it’s pretty clear that I belong to group number two. Carl as well. And that goes for his various co-hosts, many of his guests, and many of his listeners.

Now, and this is part of the reason I’m out here this week, he’s expanding on that, and he’s doing it in a way that I think is just brilliant (although I don’t know if I can talk about all his plans yet).

I don’t say that enough about Carl, by the way: He’s very, very intelligent.

He sees, perhaps better than anyone else I’ve ever known, just how large the population of developer group number two is. He gets that these people don’t just want their information straight up, but rather would like to have it delivered in many ways – whether it’s by someone like me who’s completely crazy, or by someone like Mark Miller who’s… well, completely crazy.

I’m glad that Carl’s alive. I’m glad that he’s worked his ass off on projects like .NET Rocks.

Developer group number one kind of drives me nuts. The cold, humorless, we-have-to-pretend-this-is-rocket-science mentality of that group is rather lacking in charm.

Anyway, all I really wanted to do here was thank Carl for creating spaces for group number two. If it weren’t for him, I don’t think I’d still be in this industry. He gave me opportunities that I probably didn’t deserve, and opened doors that wouldn’t have otherwise been available to me. He, along with Chris Sells and Scott Hanselman, helped me realize that it was OK to think coding was fun. He gave me a venue to express that.

And now he’s working on a whole new set of ways to connect with and grow the community.

I’m telling you: He’s one to watch, this Franklin guy. I’m several time zones away from home, tired as hell, and ready to pass out, but I still felt the need to write this.

He’s a hell of a human being.

Word to the Carl.

Published Thursday, July 13, 2006 5:23 AM by Rory

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Comments

 

John Walker said:

Rory,

Never met the guy, but I listen to .Net Rocks, DNRtv, and Hanselminutes. Just like your favorite radio host, you begin to know the person...at least to some degree. He seems exactly as you describe...a guy who loves coding, finds it creative and most importantly fun. Just like me. I earn a living from this and I can hardly believe I get paid so well to do something I would want to do anyway. Thanks to Carl, I can continue to love it while I take my dog for an hour long walk through Hoboken listening to his stuff.

Word up to the Carl! He's a Jersey boy to boot!
July 13, 2006 6:18 AM
 

Jason Mauss said:

dude, Rory, you can detach your lips from Carl's butt anytime now - you're already "in". heh, jk man ;)

I got to chat with Carl briefly by the pool tables at the VS/SQL 2005 launch party in SF during his big "road trip". Cool guy, for sure. Best of all, you can tell he doesn't really let it go to his head that much.

alright now, let's not turn this into too big of a Carl Franklin ego stroke. (I was going to use a more derogatory term than "ego stroke" but since this seems to be something of a "family friendly" blog these days, I'll hold off.)
July 13, 2006 6:46 AM
 

Rory said:

Jason -

"alright now, let's not turn this into too big of a Carl Franklin ego stroke."

Yeah... the intention here, though, was just to thank Carl. Like I said, this was a personal post (or at least as personal as a post can be when I get tens of thousands of unique visitors each month :).

If you go back through the archives, you'll see that I actually write this post (not this one *exactly*, but more or less the same thing) every few months.

It's just to recognize what Carl did for me by bringing me on board with .NET Rocks.

The opportunities it led me to were... rather incredible.

The guy deserves my thanks every so often - if only to show I absolutely haven't forgotten :)
July 13, 2006 8:49 AM
 

Bil Simser said:

Props to Carl (who's a heck of a guy, even if I didn't make it on his photo essay of TechEd geeks) and props to you Rory for coming down whatever it is you've been on to spread the good word. I thought for awhile there you forgot where your paychecks were coming from.

And props to the several other hundred guys out there that form this crazy developer centric community we call home. People like Hanselman and Mark Miller (who is completely off his rocker). These are smart dudes and know their stuff, but more importantly like Carl they just give and give and give to form the catalyst of this community we've created. Sure there are guys like yourself who get paid to do it, then there's guys like Hanselman who spends most of his time talking little talks about it, and getting people involved, and getting people excited.

One of the greatest succsses I've had isn't that uber-blog entry that has 500,000,000 hits but the 1 guy who walked up to me after a presentation and said he wanted to get out there in the community and talk about SharePoint because he saw all the cool stuff I was doing with it. Now that's inspiring. Even more so than the technology itself.

Woah. Did I say that?
July 13, 2006 11:29 AM
 

Jake Good said:

Interesting notion... though I would venture to add in a third set:

3. The developers who don't show any passion. They sit and bang away at what they are told and never go anywhere or improve the software development world. No opinions, no seriousness, nothing... This would include those who *think*/*act like* they are developers...

There are LOTS of people in the field making a really good living that don't show any passion what-so-ever...

I don't have any personal issues with such people... there's a need for the third group. There's a need for all three groups!
July 13, 2006 2:40 PM
 

Malcolm Anderson said:

Thank you for putting into words, the reason that I named my blog the way I did, "Geeks With Lives" because I've never had a lot of patience with Geekus Non Livus.


As a side note:

Are you going to be at code camp?
Or is "the man" going to have you stationed in BFE that weekend?
Or is some hot little thing going to have you tied up in her closet that weekend?
July 13, 2006 2:53 PM
 

Anonymous said:

I think this guy is type no. 1, right?

http://designpatternsfor.net/Default.aspx?pid=61
July 13, 2006 3:58 PM
 

Bil Simser said:

I don't know what that guy is, but he misses some of the boat (or the whole water, can't tell) on software architecture.

It's really not about patterns and technology. Sure, they're an integral part, but (and just MHO) the key things architecture is about:

Communication
Abstraction
Negotiation
Influence

Really. A good architect excels at these skills because they have no power, only persuasion to influence, and they need to know how to communicate what they're thinking so everyone understands them.

Hmmm, time for a blog entry.
July 13, 2006 5:05 PM
 

Brian Kuhn said:

Rory,

You didn't mention all of the recent time you spent in a dark hot box wearing no shirt... but I digress.

I definitely agree that community IS the next killer 'application'. You can see it in the success of .NET Rocks! and other community/technology oriented pod-casts, and even in the Start Page of Visual Studio where a variety of information sources are aggregated from MSDN.

In the last few years I find that I am as likely to find the solution to a difficult problem I have on someone's personal blog as I am on MSDN. Technologies like RSS are enabling type 2 developers to communicate and collaborate in ways they couldn't before.

There are people like Carl who are natural enablers within the community, and it is great that you are trying to recognize the important work they quietly go about doing.
July 13, 2006 5:08 PM
 

Matt said:

[quote]
Note: This is another personal post. Not in the “I just got not-dumped” vein, but in a “I think this guy is freaking awesome, and I want the world to know it” kind of way. If you really don’t care, then please don’t let me bore you.
[/quote]

Rory, this is *your* blog, write what you want. If "they" dont want you to read your personal stuff, they can just go suck eggs.

Personally, i like coming back to your blog cos you're stark raving mad, and its an awful lot of fun. Stuff demographics, write whatever catches your fancy at 3am...

(then again, that could explain why my blog has about 3.4 readers... :D)
July 13, 2006 6:07 PM
 

Stefan said:

I too like Carl and his shows a lot. Richard is a great co-host, so was Mark Dunn. But your contributions to DotNetRocks, Rory, were something extraordinary. A mixture of bizarre ideas and clear thoughts, intransingent sincerity near to self-destruction.
July 13, 2006 6:31 PM
 

Robert said:

Since we are taking the time to say thanks to Carl, I'd like to jump in as well. Carl has been helping me for a very long time.

No, we've never met, but I remember the days of Carl and Gary's and getting all those great VB tips, plus all the magazine articles over the years.

More recently, the discovery of .Net rocks has really made coding fun again. I've always been a type 2 coder, but had sort of gotten bored with it. DNR has reinvigorated me, made coding fun again.

Robert

July 13, 2006 8:40 PM
 

rp said:

I’m a type 2 – converted to type 1 (thanks to my past employer... long story) – converted to type 2 again (thanks to You, Scott Hansleman, Richard and of-course, “the guy” – Carl!!) Never met anyone of you guys but have been enjoying your company for over a year and a half now. Thought I should chime in and say thanks… so here it is: <b> "THANKS!!!" </b>
July 13, 2006 9:35 PM
 

JasonF said:

+1 for the Carl props (but that's no secret for anyone who knows me).

I would definitely point to Carl/DNR as being the catalyst for me becoming involved in the community (before listening to all of the interviews, I didn't really know that there even was a community out there that I wanted to be a part of).

Also, I think that he might have had something to do with my interest in learning to play the guitar...
July 13, 2006 10:35 PM
 

paul said:

I'm in Boston right now, we're going to Rock this town tonight with a big party at City Hall, wish you guys could have been here.

Any Geek Diners planed?
July 13, 2006 10:37 PM
 

SBC said:

yup.. have to certainly agree - Carl is certainly an asset to the .NET developer community. He is very instrumental in the Connecticut .NET Developer Group (www.ctdotnet.org) and provides assistance at every opportunity.
You missed a couple of other points about him - he's an accomplished musician and an ECONOMIST!
He's very much into the economics of globalization ('Commanding Heights') - bet you didn't know that , huh?
July 14, 2006 12:34 PM
 

Matt Dickins said:

"TFT" I think not, CRT all the way please!
July 14, 2006 12:49 PM
 

Anonymous said:

'The Carl' is actually a reference to this UW professor: http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/ebeling/

Feel free to use 'Teh Carl' though.
July 14, 2006 3:37 PM
 

Chris Jackson said:

I also have a lot of respect and admiration for Carl. I got my current job because of him (I plant to blog about that some day)! I've also had the opportunity to make a visit to his office in the booming metropolis of New London, CT. Without a doubt, Carl Rocks, in more ways than one!

adf471587879rzq
July 14, 2006 5:40 PM
 

punky said:

July 14, 2006 7:13 PM
 

ilyushka said:

Well, I'm just serfing around...

I just want to say that I also belong to the team number 2 (which is actually number one, isn't it?) :)
July 14, 2006 8:57 PM
 

Rory said:

Chris -

"I also have a lot of respect and admiration for Carl."

Are you the same Chris I worked with out in Groton?
July 14, 2006 9:09 PM
 

Rory said:

paul -

"I'm in Boston right now, we're going to Rock this town tonight with a big party at City Hall, wish you guys could have been here."

Wouldn've been awesome, but this was a quick and focused trip.

Sometime, though :)
July 14, 2006 9:10 PM
 

Rory said:

Malcolm -

"Are you going to be at code camp?"

Of course I am, yo :)
July 14, 2006 9:12 PM
 

Rory said:

Brian -

"There are people like Carl who are natural enablers within the community, and it is great that you are trying to recognize the important work they quietly go about doing."

It just happens every once in a while - I stop and remember back to when I was working for myself, listening to those first few episodes of .NET Rocks, and thinking, "Hey... there's a place for me here."

And as for what Carl's doing - it goes way beyond DNR now (as you know), and it's going to go even further.

I'm very, very proud of what he's done. It's inspiring to get to watch him work for a week.

Seriously.
July 14, 2006 9:14 PM
 

Rory said:

Stefan -

"But your contributions to DotNetRocks, Rory, were something extraordinary. A mixture of bizarre ideas and clear thoughts, intransingent sincerity near to self-destruction."

Thank you very much :)

I still like to hear occasionally that people remember the old days when I was on DNR... it was certainly a blast (until my work schedule made it impossible to do).
July 14, 2006 9:15 PM
 

Jeff Atwood said:

> I think there are two (2) types of developers:

"Someday I hope to understand the Thing One vs. Thing Two argument when the result is completely exclusive. In other words, I hope to understand zealotry."

I say kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.
July 14, 2006 11:59 PM
 

Rory said:

Jeff -

"I say kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out."

NO. BAD.

If we kill all the zealots, I'll have one less thing to bitch about.

What would happen to my blog?

What would happen to *us*, Jeff?
July 15, 2006 7:42 AM
 

Tee said:

Carl sounds like a badass basically. Why can't you be more like him Rory? :( You disappoint me mate.

Just kidding hahahahaha..(continues laughing with no sign of ever stopping. Ever.)

By the way...I was going to tell you that I totally *adored* the post about the Young Child Thing carrying sicknesses around in her pocket and then spewing them through every available oriface at unsuspecting regulars such as yourself. It's a shame that we can't deport children as soon as they exit the womb. A damned shame. (shakes head in disgust)
July 15, 2006 7:39 PM
 

dick carlson said:

I'm just hoping that I get an invite to "Carl Camp" in Boston this fall. It's a five-day event, where every session is presented by Carl.

There are five "Carl Impersonators" scheduled, who will be wearing gold lame jump suits and spectacles.

I'm obviously one of those people that have trouble turning their computer on (Scott can tell you) but I agree he's cool.

For an East Coast guy, that is.
July 16, 2006 2:16 AM
 

Paul Murphy said:

so much truth here about community... there are some truly interesting and deathly boring people out there!
July 16, 2006 3:23 AM
 

JoeG said:

One of Carl's great strengths is that he's just a regular guy with great talent (musicaly as well as developeristicaly...are either of those words? Oh well, screw it.). It's easy to learn from someone who seems like he'd be such an easy guy to hang out with. And he is, by the way, an easy guy to hang out with.

Rory on the other hand is a...wait, this is his blog. Never mind...
July 16, 2006 4:07 AM
 

Chris Jackson said:

Rory,

Yes, I'm the very same Chris Jackson that you worked with. I'll send you an email with my contact info. Maybe we can hook up while you are in the area.

adf471587879rzq
July 17, 2006 10:35 AM
 

Type III said:

Okay, of course your types are a vast over-simplification, but you knew that. The truth is that oftentimes I get really annoyed with Carl. I mean, as often as I listen to DNR and DNRTV, you have to understand, NOBODY is that entertaining or informed, and yet somehow Carl still contributes. Richard is a nice counterbalance, a sort of "straight man", to Carl's often uninformed perspective. Carl actually reminds me a lot of Charles from Channel 9. So often neither of them has any idea what they are talking about, yet they still act like it.

Of course, most people don't have any idea what they are talking about, myself included. What is that old definition of an intellectual? An intellectual is someone who speaks authoritatively on any topic except that which they actually possess expertise. It doesn't matter though. It's not the real experts that show up on Fox News or the soon to be syndicated podcasting world.

Anyway, if Franklin wasn't an RD he wouldn't have his show, but kudos to him for being savvy enough to leverage that. It seems Carl and Google both had it right--advertising does pay.
July 18, 2006 4:50 AM
 

Erwin Blonk said:

I heard you on Mondays. Awesome, try to hook up with them anytime you can and they let you, c'est hilarieux, mon ami.
July 18, 2006 11:05 AM
 

Charlie Barker said:

Rory you and Carl are both cool dudes. I think I started in group 1 but gradually moved become a group 2 member.

DNR totally rocks it is the first place I look for the low down on new technologies.
July 22, 2006 7:30 PM
 

TrackBack said:

Developer Types
July 14, 2006 3:40 PM
 

GuyIncognito said:

Testing a URL...

http://www.google.com
August 14, 2006 6:17 PM
 

George said:

lol, looks like GuyIncognito and I have the same thought process. Testing out the new commenting features in some of the older posts.

just because i'm a tad cooler then he is, i'll actually say something applicable to this post.

i know i've told you before in an email rory, but i'll say it again. you were my carl. i was pretty embarrassed by my job for quite a while, mainly due to the stereotypes and the people that i worked with. let's face it, a lot of geeks out there are hideous.

then i went and heard you speak. that changed my life and my perspective on a lot of things.

so thanks.

(and I already see that i set my url up wrong in my profile so i'll have to fix that...geesh)
August 16, 2006 1:29 PM
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