And as I added to the comment thread a few minutes ago, you made it sound like WebSphere is the only Java app server choice. Java and .NET are both solid technologies and each has its strengths and weaknesses. To say you wouldn't use Java for web services because WebSphere sucks is like saying you won't drive a car because the Ford Festiva bites. You have other choices Rory.

I know. I was unclear about Java app servers. I don't actually hate them all. But, my hatred for Websphere is very strong. When we were working with Websphere 3.5 (on the AS400), I received the client CD, and tried to install the administration app. What happened was something that I had never seen before - After installing the administration app, the CD then went on to install a bugfix patch that was on the *same CD* as the main install. They *knew* ahead of time that the client was going to need to be patched, but didn't even bother to do it. They just stuck it all on one CD, letting you sort it out. That's just bogus. I have other complaints, but I don't think it's really an argument worth continuing. I understand your point of view, and I'm glad that you called me on having been unclear about Java app server. I hate Websphere, love Tomcat, and live for .NET/IIS. That ought to just about sum it up.

Okay well I will admit that I think all Java App servers leave a lot to be desired. I think having a choice is great it you aer comparing apples to apples. Unfortunately .Net/IIS crushes every Java App server I have ever used and I have used three for production applications. Websphere 4.1 and 5.0 are only alright and Websphere Portal Server is so horrible that I have to question companies who don't return it within a month. I have been playing around with .Net and yes I think it is unfortunate but it is truly in a class by itself when compared to Java. Also I think anyone trying to tell me that Sun and IBM are not as bad as Microsoft and somehow I am immoral for liking/using Microsoft products are a bunch of hypocrites. Both IBM and Sun had monopolies albeit in different segments of the market.

I have worked with the AS400 and WebSphere. They DO SUCK. And Microsoft had nothing to do with it- IBM MADE IT SUCK ALL BY THEMSELVES!!

And having used .NET and Java (2 years on each), he's also correct in saying that .NET is in a class of its own. What took 1 week of coding in Java takes me about 2 hours in .NET. Thats why its better.

I have used BEA WebLogic, WebSphere, WebSphere Portal, JBoss, JRun and have been a Java developer for a long time. I have also used JBuilder and Eclipse and IntelliJ IDEA extensively and others for a couple of weeks at a time. I think JBoss was the best Application Server I have used and I think IntelliJ IDEA is the best development environment for Java/J2EE. I do love Java as a language and have written a lot of extremely high volume systems. However I have seen 2/3 of all the Java/J2EE projects I have been on fail to finish. The two main reasons have been that there are too many architectures, frameworks and methodologies in the Java world that all become management buzzwords and start to decay development teams by decay I mean make engineers fight with each other and in general work far to many hours and become way to tired and quit. I also think that the App Servers in the Java world are far too expensive. Also Java App Servers are to complex and difficult to support the only exception to this rule that I have found is JBoss, BEA is also not horrible but still has major issues that should have been ironed out years ago. The development tools with the exception of IntelliJ IDEA are very bad and frustrating to use, all are essentially way to slow and counterinuitive. I hate to say it but I have worked on and off with C#, ASP.Net and Visual Studio and have no choice but to say that those techonologies are far superior from a productivity standpoint that is they are easy to use, learn and test with. I love Java but I love my family more and any technology that allows me to enjoy my chosen career which is programming and not being a preacher and also allows me to go home after a job well done and be with my family gets my vote as the best.

IBM Getting into the .NET IDE Game