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This, my friends, is why we don't do drugs

[Note: This story involves the true and honest recollections of someone who dabbled in various consciousness-altering substances during his formative years. If you’re easily offended by amusing tales of drug-induced idiocy, then you might prefer to stop reading NOW.

I’m writing this because it’s a part of my life. It’s over, I haven’t done drugs in years (unless you count booze, which is a totally legal drug), and I want to write about it. I realize that this is probably a bit of a risk, but I feel that this is perfectly justifiable. People, good people, get wrapped up in things that others might consider unsavory. These things happen. I hope you can read this without judging, as it’s really just meant to be an entertaining look into the idiotic life of a stupid teenager.

Who was me.]


Drugs are a weird thing.

I would never suggest that anybody else try them, and have actually spent a considerable amount of time giving people lectures on why they’re stupid (the drugs – not the people – although I’m happy and always prepared to speak from considerable personal experience on why people are stupid)..

Note, however, that I don’t lecture from a holier-than-thou-I’ve-never-done-them-but-I’m-going-to-act-like-I-know-everything-about-them moral stance, but rather from an oh-the-foolish-foolish-things-I’ve-done-please-tell-me-the-film-didn’t-come-out position.

That said, I made some silly decisions in my youth, and I might as well talk about them. Otherwise, they’ll just go to waste, and then count for absolutely nothing.

But, before I begin my flapper flapping, here’s something I’ll tell you from a preachy position: Never do ecstasy. I’ve never done it, and I never will. I have a lot of friends who, when trying it, were under the impression that it didn’t do any brain damage (or much, anyway), when, in fact, it does plenty. That was one of the few things I learned in college that really mattered. That stuff is poison.

Pot, mushrooms, LSD… They don’t actually do any (permanent) brain damage when used lightly and only on occasion. They aren’t the Evils some self-righteous people consider them to be, but they also aren’t going to do you any favors.

Such as one spring day in the mid 90s…


When I was about sixteen years old, I had a “crew.” It was a group of like-minded individuals with whom I spent a great deal of time.

By “like-minded,” I am of course referring to the love affair we all had with pot/reefer/doobage/the demon-weed. We didn’t know anything else about each other, and certainly didn’t waste time caring about the fact. The things that bind teenagers tend to be shallow and superficial. Church groups, strange orgy clubs, heroin... That kind of thing.

On its own, pot is a very benign substance. Unlike alcohol, which will have you shaving your head and wagging your genitals before midnight, pot pretty much just makes you tired, hungry, grumpy, and stupid(er). It also gives you bad breath, seems to be a source of bad personal hygiene, and costs a ridiculous amount of money, but you could really say that about anything. I guess.

Or not.

Whatever.

The thing that you have to realize, though, is that pot isn’t always served up on its own. It can look perfectly normal, but be “laced” with anything from PCP to turpentine. This usually takes you by surprise, as you were really just expecting to sit around and laugh stupidly at cartoons on MTV while arguing with your friends about who gets to eat the last Dorito, but instead found yourself wanting to punch a hole through a car door with your head. That’s not so cool.

This is one reason why I like the FDA. Sure, the organization has had its problems, but no matter what horrible things might happen to your liver, heart, kidneys, and whatever else as a result of taking an FDA-approved drug, you can rest assured that Pfizer, for example, did not lace your Zoloft with crack.

But, as I was saying, it happens with pot. Some dealer, in a very strange effort to be “kind,” will sometimes take it upon himself to contribute to your marijuana the particulate matter of a foreign mind-altering substance: You can’t see it, you can’t taste it, and you can’t smell it. But it’s there.

And you don’t find out until it’s a bit too late.

A group of us had gone camping down on the Oregon coast. It was me and the aforementioned “crew.”

The previous night had been a spree of drunken tomfoolery involving several elephant-paralyzing doses of booze, boxes of illegal fireworks, and probably a lot of bad decisions about who (or what) looked attractive at the time in question.

We all emerged from our tents that day in a bit of a daze. Nobody knew what time it was, and nobody cared. It had rained at some point, although nobody had the mental wherewithal to recall when it might have happened. The only telltale signs were the wet ground, the sodden footprints, the boot tracks in our tents, and, more disturbingly, in our sleeping bags. Sometimes it’s good to not remember what happened the night before.

The one thing we could all agree on was that food would be nice. However, our bellies were burning and aching from the lowest-bidder-vodka abuse cast against them the previous night, and merely the suggestion of digestion sent some among our group into a fit of the dry-heaves, with poor Neil getting hit the worst. Neil was personally responsible for drinking half of the supplied alcohol by himself during the night’s reveries, and you could see it in his eyes (also, rather unfortunately, on his shirt).

But, before I continue with the story, here’s something you should know about stoners: They will go to great lengths to try to convince themselves and the world that what they’re doing is not a drug, but something akin to an herbal medicine or spiritual experience catalyst. Every stoner is armed to the lungs with encyclopedic knowledge of marijuana’s finer non-intoxicating qualities.

Unfortunately, 99% of what stoners believe is fabricated among the group. Here’s how it works:

——————————————————————

[Setting: Stoners gathered around a hooka, sitting on beanbags, discussing life and the universe. At least they think that’s what they’re doing.]

Stoner Dave: Duuuuuuuuuude… I bet that, like, pot, like, makes you smarter in math.

Stoner Jason: Totally. That’s heavy, man.

——————————————————————

[Setting: A completely different party. Stoner Jason is there, and he’s discussing life and the universe with a different group.]

Stoner Jason: Duuuuuuuuuuude… I heard that, like, pot, like, makes you smarter in math.

Stoner Mike: Totally. That’s heavy, man.

——————————————————————

[Setting: Stoner Mike is now hanging out at yet another party, discussing life and the universe with Stoner Dave, who we met at the first party.]

Stoner Mike: Duuuuuuuuuuuuude… Scientists learned that, like, pot, like, makes you smarter in math.

Stoner Dave: Dude! I thought so!

——————————————————————

Do you see what’s happened?

Stoner Dave made something up on the spot and communicated it to Stoner Jason. Stoner Jason then went and reported the rumor as something closer to fact. Stoner Mike, who is completely unable to engage his drug-caked skeptical faculties, has accepted this news as fact. Then, at the last party, Stoner Mike has put a little twist on the rumor and delivered as fact to Stoner Dave, the guy who originated the story.

And, now that Stoner Dave feels vindicated in his belief about pot and math, he’s going to spread the glorious word far and wide, until it eventually becomes part of a Dave Mathews song.

This is where Stoner Lore comes from, and it has been the source of millions of ridiculous rumors over the years about the magical and mystical qualities of a plant that really just gives you lung cancer and makes you stupid.

It’s not all wrong, though. Mixed in with this desert of little lies is one granule of sand that isn’t total crap.

Pot does help with nausea. If you’re feeling sick to your stomach, then a few hits of the doobage will settle things down. Carl Sagan, who suffered from bone marrow cancer, was an advocate of dope for this reason.

So, what does the group of hungover and hungry Neanderthal males do upon waking when they really want to eat?

Of course! They get really stoned.

And that’s what we did.

But, something was odd. I remember looking at the pot and thinking that it looked “weak.” It was scraggly and anemic, having the qualities of a bit of dried desert brush, and not the lush, wet, green appearance that I was used to. For this reason, I assumed that I would have to smoke a little extra in order to achieve the state of intoxication I was after (oh, I forgot: To relieve the nausea. Yeah. That’s right).

What a mistake that was.

When I released the smoke from my lungs, it poured from my various facial orifii in a thick cloud that obscured my head like ashes spewing from the mouth of Mount Etna. I was basically on fire.

Within minutes, I knew that the dope was doctored. We were about a mile from our car, and were hiking up through the forest to get to it. During this walk, I became acutely aware of a “bobbing” sensation that wasn’t usually present. It felt like I was falling hundreds of feet with each step, only miraculously reconnecting my feet with the ground beneath them. That was odd.

Then, the real weirdness started.

I swallowed, as I often do, when the collection of spit in my mouth became a nuisance. You know how spit builds up and you eventually have to swallow it, right? Well, that’s what I did.

But, when I did it, I could feel, and even somehow “see,” every last muscle involved in the process. Every little gland, every little cell that contributed to the mass of flesh that constituted my throat, every little wet spot, every dry spot, and everything in between: I could feel it all, at precisely the same time, as it slid, as it contracted, as it relaxed, and it freaked me out. It was such a strange sensation, actually, that it resulted in a strong head rush which led to what felt like a brief period of unconsciousness. I mean, it felt like I had fainted.

What’s worse is that I got this feeling every time I swallowed, and this resulted in a fear of swallowing. I started spitting instead of swallowing, but only with minor success, as my body inevitably effected a swallow whether I wanted it to happen or not. Let me tell you: Being afraid of swallowing your own spit is no way to spend an afternoon at the beach.

When we got to the car, I was relieved. I felt vulnerable with my newfound swallow-fear, and knew that this was not an opportune time to come face-to-face with a bear or something. I just needed to sit down and try to find some calm.

I don’t remember much about the drive except that I was definitely off in la-la land. I had turned “inward,” focusing on my thoughts to the exclusion of the world around me. This is a bad state to be in when mind-boggingly whacked because you aren’t thinking straight, you aren’t in control of what you’re thinking, and you still have no choice but to think it.

I was aware of how completely nuts I felt, and was trying to figure out what had caused it. I knew that the pot was laced with something, but I wanted to know what it was that I had put into my body. Like most people, I tended to ignore the ingredients list on the food products I purchased, but I was dying for something similar that would have shed some light on what had happened to our pot.

In the absence of any sensible train of thought, and while completely out of my mind, I came to the conclusion that the pot had been laced with LSD, and that someone was trying to poison us with it - that this had been an intentional thing.

Have I mentioned yet that stoners tend to be really paranoid? I haven’t? Well, they are. Something about the drug makes you think that the whole world is watching you, judging, and plotting.

And there I was: Convinced that someone, somewhere, had been watching, had judged, and then plotted to poison us with a huge quantity of LSD from which we would never “come down.” I thought I was stuck in this state, and that I would never know sobriety again.

The thoughts continued to snowball, building on that initial (fallacious) premise, and my eyes became shifty and suspicious of everything. I had no idea what else this terrible person might have done, or to what lengths he might have gone, to infect our bodies with this substance. I wasn’t exactly maintaining.

After what seemed like an eternity, we arrived at a McDonald's and got in line to order our grub. The whole time, all I could think was this:

They know! All these people are watching us, and they know… But do they know know, or do they just know? Is he here? Has he put anything in the food? Those people are looking at me… Why are they looking at me? What do they want? Are they trying to tell me something? Is this code for “don’t order the Big Mac?” Has he poisoned the Big Macs? Is that what they’re trying to tell me? That must be what they’re trying to say – he’s poisoned the Big Macs. That dirty rat. Well, I’ll show him – I’ll just get a regular burger with extra mustard. If I get it with extra mustard, then they’ll have to make the burger especially for me, which means that I won’t get a burger from the stock of already LSD-laced burgers that our unseen aggressor wants us to eat. Plus, I like extra mustard. I must remember to thank those people for the warning. I owe them my life. They are saints. Do they know how they have served king and country today? Yes. I must thank them. But not here – not now. When the time is right, I will know.

It was a nonstop flurry of crazy thoughts, and it was only my extensive training in the art of stoned-food-ordering that allowing me to collect myself enough to place an order for two regular hamburgers with extra mustard. Satisfied that I had sidestepped the trap, I waited for my food, feeling a little calm for the first time in about an hour.

When we all had our trays, we went and sat down in the corner, out of the way, where we could eat, hopefully undisturbed, and without the interference of meddling sobers.

The only thing getting in the way was that, although the other people in the establishment didn’t disturb us, my own thoughts were ramping up for another round of scare-the-paranoid-stoner.

I ate one hamburger without incident, but my mind was out of control again by the second. I was chewing on a piece of burger when I hit something hard. Something that shouldn’t have been there. Something… poisonous?

Crap! Those people were working for him! They knew the whole time, and that’s why they told me the Big Macs were poisoned. It’s because the Big Macs weren’t poisoned – the hamburgers with extra mustard were. They must have been waiting for me, waiting for that sign. They probably knew from my file that I liked extra mustard on my hamburgers, and so waited for the order to come through before stuffing a hard capsule containing LSD into my burger. This is it. They won. I’m screwed. Now, the best I can do is try to minimize the damage. From what I’ve already consumed, I’ll probably spend the rest of my life thinking I’m a coconut, but that’s better than thinking that I’m a shower. I have to spit this food out. I have to do it, and I have to do it now. This isn’t a game. I’ve got to get it out!

And so it happened: Right there, in full view of everybody in the restaurant, mid-bite, I spat a large lump of partially masticated hamburger up onto my tray and stared at it for a moment, wondering if I could find the capsule of LSD that had been placed inside of it.

It must have come as a bit of a surprise to the rest of my friends, all engaged in a nice little conversation about flowers or something, when this happened. They stopped eating in the way the piano stops playing in a saloon where a large and undesirable criminal has just swung through the swinging doors. The McDonald's merry-go-round stopped. Cars in the drive-through outside sat in neutral. Employees paused from the perpetual punching of orders into their registers. Birds stopped singing. Wall Street took an impromptu five-minute break. All eyes were on me.

And my lump of hamburger in the early stages of digestion.

There are some things in life that you can’t explain to people.

You just can’t.

Published Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:29 AM by Rory

Filed Under:

Comments

 

Ian said:

Dude - I've never eated Mc'D's stoned, but you don't need to be paranoid to know that if there's a lump that ain't supposed to be there (are any?) then the foods gotta come out.

Of course sober-me would probably use a napkin not the bare tray, but the 'meat' is exiting my mouth one way or another!

Great story btw - I'm with you on the Exstacy stance, that stuff WILL kill ya.
December 30, 2004 1:12 AM
 

Rory said:

Ian -

"I'm with you on the Exstacy stance, that stuff WILL kill ya."

Even worse than killing you, it will eventually leave you contemplating lint for fun for the rest of your life.

In school, we looked at studies done on monkeys (which aren't humans - I know) showing the kind of damage done by ecstasy, and it's sort of like clearcutting neurons.

Not pretty...

It wasn't one of those studies where they gave the monkeys 5,000 times the usual dose of the drug, either - the damage after just *one* dose is scary.

Not that I want to freak anybody out.

But it's been sad over the years watching some friends go from being interesting, intelligent, and spontaneous to being vegetables, so I tend to get a little preachy about the stuff.
December 30, 2004 2:38 AM
 

Prefer to remain anonymous said:

You probably already know this . . . but LSD cannot be smoked (well, it can be smoked, but I don't believe it is a viable route of administration). Maybe it is, but not from what I recall . . .

I did ecstasy, pot, lsd, shrooms, booze, meth, coke etc. quite a bit a decade ago. It was some fun times, but there were scary times too, which is one of the reasons I quit. That stuff *will* mess your head up really well, and it can, if you allow it to, distort you view of reality (not just when you are under the influence, which is usually desirable, but permanently).

Maybe that was just some *really* good weed!
:P
December 30, 2004 5:27 AM
 

Andy said:

I'm not generally one to debate the pros and cons of various drugs with people I don't personally know... But Ecstacy is not that bad for you in reasonable doses.

First of all, that Monkey study Rory refered to was retracted by the researchers because of numerous "problems", including the fact that the drug bottles were mislabled, and the monkeys were actually given unreasonbly large doses of meth ( http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_research2.shtml )

The bottom line as I've gathered it is that Ecstasy does, indeed, have the ability to blow out your serotonin receptors with sustained, heavy usage. So don't do that. However, permanent damage is unlikely given occasional and minimal usage.

That said, I've done ecstacy once. I enjoyed it, but I didn't do it again because it was _too_ good. I didn't want to get myself sucked into a drug I wasn't sure I could control.

And, as for saying the FDA is great for making sure your zoloft doesn't have crack in it? ... well... I'm more angry about the FDA's role in making sure you CAN'T know your marijuana isn't also similarly pure.

But whatever, all that stuff is fairly behind me these days.
December 30, 2004 5:31 AM
 

Scott said:

hmmmm, I did a quick scan at Google scholar and couldn't find anything to indicate long term brain altering of LSD but I seem to remember something about water soluble halocinogens, like LSD and ecstasy, affecting gametes in vitro (meaning they "funk up your sperm yo'" as the kids would say). But I couldn't find any peer reviewed papers that said that.

I did find a PET study of MDMA (ecstasy) (http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2003/2003_buchert_6041_1.pdf) . The study found that the effects of MDMA on seritonin last for several weeks and that it the availability of SERT (seritonin transporter) could be reversible. That doesn't mean that the neurological effects will be reversed, just that the neurons should be able to take in seritonin. The seritonin might be down-regulated by the inhibition of the SERT. (meaning your brain won't make as much).

The thing about studies of illegal drugs, especially long term effects, is that they are difficult. First it's hard to find someone who is only taking ONE drug. In Rory's story he was taking alcohol, which affects brain chemistry, and pot, which affects brain chemistry, and apparently had some other unknown substance, which affected his brain chemistry. Which one caused the worst effect in terms of the chemistry of his brain? What's the effect of taking a hit of acid and then smoking a lot of pot on the brain chemistry? Pot is fat soluble and tends to hang around in the body longer, could the LSD bind with some chemical in the pot forming some funky acid salt that sticks gets absorbed into nerve cells? If you drink a lot, you basically dehydrate your brain. Does that increase the uptake of a water soluble drug like LSD or ecstasy? Kind of like doing gatorade and vokda shots?

The second problem is that the people who are really using the drugs heavily tend to lead lives that allow them to reach room temperature much quicker than people that don't abuse drugs. It's hard to do a 15 year follow-up study on a guy who dies 7 years later. You can slice up his melon and look at the pieces, but you don't really know if all those pieces still worked well.

That being said, all of my knowledge about drugs comes from my book learnin'. My friends all told me that I was not to take drugs under any circumstances. That I was screwed up enough and they didn't want to deal with me fucked up on some chemical other than alcohol.;)

Except for that time I had my wisdom teeth taken out and I was given NO^2. I understand the appeal of nitrous, at least when administered by a professional. whup whup whup whup. hello-lo-lo-lo-lo
December 30, 2004 6:14 AM
 

Haacked said:

If you're not going to lecture from a "holier-than-thou-I've-never-done-them..." stance, you ought not to make such a blanket statement about Ecstacy.

As one commenter mentioned, studies of illegal drugs are very difficult. The monkey study was a complete fraud as they were given Meth. Also, note that the FDA has approved Ecstacy studies with terminally ill cancer patients, though in actuality it should be referred to as MDMA in the clinical trials.

The real danger with Ecstacy is that you never know what you're really getting. Though the effects of MDMA are debated, the effects of other drugs often sold in place of MDMA are definitely detrimental.

MDMA will not leave gaping holes in your brain. The long term effects are still inconclusive. So far, alcohol and cigarettes cause far more damage than all other illegal drugs combined.
December 30, 2004 7:22 AM
 

angus logan said:

Are you trying to make everyone feel guilty before a big trashy new years?
December 30, 2004 9:29 AM
 

Rory said:

anonymous -

"You probably already know this . . . but LSD cannot be smoked (well, it can be smoked, but I don't believe it is a viable route of administration). Maybe it is, but not from what I recall . . ."

Um.

I was in a bit of a state :) Whether it can or cannot be smoked had nothing to do with it. My thoughts had snowballed down Paranoia Mountain, which is a mountain that I just now made up, and it isn't real, but you know that because you just read the part where I said that I just made it up, but I wanted to make sure that I was clear about it.

It was recently suggested to me that it might have been laced with opium, but I don't know.

It definitely was *not* just good pot, though. In the Pacific Northwest, we were exposed to a large quantity of what people would consider to be "good pot," and that's not what this was.

This was something else entirely.
December 30, 2004 9:50 AM
 

Rory said:

Haacked -

"If you're not going to lecture from a 'holier-than-thou-I've-never-done-them...' stance, you ought not to make such a blanket statement about Ecstacy."

I do believe that I stated that I was going to be preachy about ecstasy:

"...here’s something I’ll tell you from a ***preachy*** position: Never do ecstasy."

I feel all right about this one, though. While I realize that it's anecdotal, I've never seen my friends go downhill faster than when doing a lot of ecstasy, and I've had a lot of friends who've done a *lot* of drugs.

It was freaky.

What was freakier, though, was that they believed that the drug didn't do *any* damage, and that just because it was being experimented with in various medical settings that it was okee-dokee.

A friend of mine who was very talented when it came to martial arts spent a night with ecstasy (he did a bit too much - I'll give you that) and was hardly able to stand for about three months. He had dizzy spells all the time and couldn't think straight. It was awful.

Awful, awful, awful.

I have a bunch of other stories from other friends who have had similar negative experiences. None of them have stories like this about pot, mushrooms, or LSD.

It doesn't prove anything, but it does make me feel justified. It's not stuff I read in a book - it was from watching people get completely screwed up.

And, speaking of books, nobody should be doing *anything* without a copy of this book (or something like this book):

http://shrinkster.com/2xd

Get it. If you don't even indulge in anything beyond a daily cup of coffee, it's still worth it.
December 30, 2004 10:01 AM
 

Andy said:

I _highly_ doubt your friend who couldn't stand for 3 months... actually took MDMA. Oh, i'm sure he took a little pill which he was sold as "ecstasy"... But the likelyhood that real MDMA could have that kind of effect is about as high as real pot causing what you experienced in your story.

Classic blaming of the drug for problems in the distribution channel which are ultimately caused by the backwards Drug War.

As I said before, yes, heavy and frequent use is going to cause problems. I really don't recommend the heavy and frequent use of ANY entertainment drug. Including alcohol. They all have their downsides. Of course, some are worse than others... meth and heroin are definitely going to screw you up faster than alocohol. But putting ecstasy in the "doing it once will mess you up for life" category is just uninformed.

But hey, your blog... be an uniformed preacher as much as you want.

Funny story, at any rate. Though my guess would be that your pot was laced with PCP. A friend of mine had that happen to him once, and the thought process sounded quite similar to yours.
December 30, 2004 10:49 AM
 

Charles said:

This is one of those circular arguments. The general concensus would suggest that all people who use drugs are prepared to live with drug useage whereas non-users think it's a bad thing. Weird eh? ;-)

I for one have used weed (or one of it's derivatives at least) and speed. I use neither now but I am apt to go for heavy drinking sessions with friends (I won't make excuses about stress or the like - I have a better time when half-cut, simple as that) and I drink lots of coffee.

However, I have met people in the past and currently have a colleague (a partner in a law firm) who is a habitual user of weed. I have worked with her for over 5 years and her memory has degraded noticeably during this time. I believe this is down to the weed.

It's awful to watch from the sidelines as a very intelligent person continues this self-abuse then says things like "I can't get dressed in the morning until I've had a joint". And really believes it.

I mentioned all of this to a doctor friend who is a general practitioner. His view is that properly cultivated and controlled weed would be beneficial to some of his patients, multiple sclerosis suffers for instance, and that the substance should be made legal to enable some quality control to be introduced and for people to use the drug 'in moderation' as we are expected to do for alcohol, tobacco, caffeine etc.

Currently, in the UK, weed and it's derivatives and been decriminalised which is a half-way house as dealing is still illegal. Consumption is illegal but punishable by a fine rather than a criminal conviction to save on police resources due to the number of cases being processed by our lower criminal courts. I digress..

There are enough people to support the legalisation of weed, cannabis etc. as this causes less/the same amount of harm as alcohol (dependant upon your cource of data). It won't go away so why not control it? Rory would get his quality control from the FDA and you could specify a maximum doseage. Everyone's a winner! Again, in the UK, we had a spate of overdoses which led to a maximum amount of over-the-counter tablets in any one packet. Ibuprofen can only be bought in packs of 32 for example and you can only buy one pack. This could stop people from buying a month's worth of reefer and smoking it in one night.

The obvious flaw in this plan is that you can go to several shops on the same day or stockpile it for an end of month party – the truly committed will always find a way but there is an element of control.

So what do you think? Barking up the wrong tree maybe? I've not heard the 'soft drugs lead to hard drugs' theory yet…

And...In response to Andy's comment above have a look at this article: http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugxtc1.html which neither proves or disproves his point but illustrates the added risk of using ecstasy (or indeed any drug).
December 30, 2004 11:05 AM
 

Charles said:

I meant to entitle that last post 'drug approval'. Heavy night last night... ;-)
December 30, 2004 11:14 AM
 

Michael Earls said:

I'd say that a hamburger at McDonald's is far more dangerous to you than a joint laced with anything.
December 30, 2004 1:56 PM
 

Poor Neil said:

I remember that night. The weed wasn't laced with LSD or PCP, it was mixed with recycled cheap vodka. You see, I didn't want to say anything at the time, but that night I pissed about a gallon and I migh have accidently pissed onto the weed....and everyone wondered why it was looking so scraggly..

I was going to say something, really I was, but I needed to calm myself first with a joint and well... the only weed available was the pissed on weed so.....

it really messed us up huh?

sorry, neil

December 30, 2004 2:47 PM
 

Scott said:

Haacked,

The paper I pointed to does show that MDMA creates "gaping holes in your brain" in terms of the ability to transport serotonin. It also shows that the effect on the transporter are not long term, but do last for "several weeks". It doesn't say anything about the down-regulation of serotonin receptors or the serotonin gene. So the psycological effects may accumulate.

The bigger risk with ecstasy lies in it's amphetamine like properties. People don't die from decreased serotonin uptake, at least not directly. They may get depressed and kill themselves due to decreased serotonin uptake. Kids take a lot of ecstasy, lose the ability to regulate their body temp, exert themselves dancing, and end up in cardiovascular or renal failure.

I've noticed one long term effect of pot on my friends who have smoked pot, I'd say at least once or twice a week (usually on the weekends). These are friends I've known since high school and I'm 33. They all have the "pot pause". You know that pause between when you finish saying something and when they answer you.
normal person:
you:"So I told her I'm not going to take that anymore."
them:"Right, you shouldn't."

pot person
you:"So I told her I'm not going to take that anymore."
pot person:"..."
pot person:"..."
pot person:"Right, you shouldn't."

It's not very scientific, but my study does show that pot has some effect on thought processes. ;)

So what's the minimum dose of ecstasy you can take and experience nothing but positive effects with no ill effects? Anyone? Beuller? Here's the difference between drug users and non-drug users that I've noted. Drug users are more willing to risk their health for a short term benefit. They will also use any rationalization they can to justify their continued use (e.g. "That one study that showed a negative effect was flawed." They never talk about any of the other studies that show a negative effect, it's like politics to them. You only mention the good stuff and eventually you believe it yourself.).

I found a scientific review called "what we know and don't know about MDMA." http://www.drugabuse.gov/PDF/MDMAConf.pdf. It's a good read, it has citations. It will take pot smokers a little while longer to read it though. :)

All that being said, I view drug use in Darwinian terms and I wouldn't condemn ALL "recreational" drugs as harmful. It largely depends on the user. Some people can manage addiction better than others. I'm for legalizing some drugs and taxing the hell out of them like we do cigarettes and alcohol. Put the taxes into a drug user health care fund and social programs. It'll be a like social security for the stoner set. When they're old and burnt out, my healthcare premiums and taxes won't have to pay for their drooling missives about "that one time we did that thing man."
December 30, 2004 4:05 PM
 

Scott said:

btw the need to rationalize isn't specific to drug users, just humans in general.
December 30, 2004 4:08 PM
 

Haacked said:

I guess it's a matter of definition. Was your friend taking pure MDMA or was it something labelled "ecstasy" containing who knows what?

In any case, I'll be preachy too and say never take anything without being informed (and your stoner buddy is not a source to be informed), and even then, never take too much of it.

I've known many people who've taken e and anecdotally, haven't seen any one of them go downhill, but the number of people i've known who've hit rock bottom from alcohol, that's a different story.

I recommend the following book on ecstasy and you'll gain insight on how hypocritical the war on <i>certain</i> drugs is. MDMA is classified as a schedule A drug, which has hindered research, yet the evidence for making such a classification is scant. It's good to see the FDA finally approving some research on MDMA.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892818573/102-9670408-8176932?v=glance
December 30, 2004 4:11 PM
 

Steven Padfield said:

Drugs are like anything else. They can be used and they can be abused. Saying that no one should do ecstasy is like saying no one should own a gun or no one should go to church. It is hypocritical, ignorant, and irresponsible. The responsible thing to say is:

KNOW YOUR MIND
KNOW YOUR BODY
KNOW YOUR DRUGS
KNOW YOUR SOURCE

www.erowid.org

By preaching education, you can reverse the harm that is caused by the misuse of drugs. By preaching abstainment, you are promoting ignorance and intolerance, and keeping the true dangers of the drug in the dark.
December 30, 2004 4:49 PM
 

Bryan Batchelder said:

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
December 30, 2004 5:16 PM
 

George said:

I took some .NET once and man what a trip. I still haven't come down from that high!!

Y'all got to git ya some of dat stuff. Whooo-weee, what a wild ride!!!

I have however noticed some adverse side affects from long term use (see link below for an example) so be careful...
http://snowstormlife.com/blogs/bliz/PermaLink.aspx?guid=3f42de67-ede7-4ea1-bdef-5a7948c10dea

(Thanks so much Paul for that Link it made me aware of the dangers of .NET!)
December 30, 2004 5:32 PM
 

Rory said:

Steven -

"Saying that no one should do ecstasy is like saying no one should own a gun or no one should go to church. It is hypocritical, ignorant, and irresponsible."

***Irresponsible***?

And it certainly isn't ignorant.

When I was younger, I indulged in quite a few drugs. Some weren't so bad for me, and some definitely *were*. No question. Same for my friends.

One problem is that users of various drugs fool themselves into thinking that the drugs they're doing are just hunky-dory.

I was serious about Stoner Lore. I can't tell you how many times I've met people who've said things like "Pot makes me smarter" and "I drive better stoned." They might *believe* that, but it's crap! Total crap.

I honestly wish that someone had been there to help me figure out what was "OK" and what wasn't. The pot? Yeah - that's nothing. The other drugs? I don't have many regrets in life, but I do wish I could go back and take an informed approach. Unfortunately, I wound up having to learn from experience, and that's made me want to caution other people not to go and make the same stupid mistakes I did.

Note that I didn't say not to do drugs, but that I focused on ecstasy.

Maybe it's something about the ecstasy here in the Pacific Northwest, but I've never seen so many people get fucked up so quickly and for so long than by that one drug.

And, yeah, it's true that what they were taking might have been something else passed off as ecstasy, but that's irrelevant! If there is no way to confirm beforehand what something is, then it just doesn't matter.

In other words: If a study came out which proved that ecstasy not only wasn't harmful, but actually caused neurogenesis up in the brainy part of your body, then I would still tell people not to do it.

Why? Because you don't know what you're getting, and whatever it is that people are getting is fucking them up around here, and these are *perfectly good people* who didn't know what they were getting into. It's sadder than hell.

Anyway, all that crap about ecstasy causing neurogenesis is sort of moot anyway since, as Scott pointed out, it *does* eat holes in your brain.

He also commented that the effects are reversible, but that there might be a cumulative effect. *That's* something to think about.

Lastly...

"By preaching education, you can reverse the harm that is caused by the misuse of drugs. By preaching abstainment, you are promoting ignorance and intolerance, and keeping the true dangers of the drug in the dark."

Exactly - I'm in total agreement.

I was told once by a friend that "pure MDMA isn't bad for you."

Well, well, well... *That's* a great tip.

And, unfortunately, it's also complete bullshit.

But, something tells me that you wouldn't have jumped on him for "keeping the true dangers of the drug in the dark."

Such crap.

If you read a few comments up, I enourged the purchase of a book called: "A Primer of Drug Action." It's a fabulous book, and it will give you a good intro to how various drugs work, and what kind of damage they can do (if any).

*That's* education. Not "don't badmouth this drug." I'm badmouthing it because I've watched it screw my friends over in a way other drugs haven't, and it seems to be fairly popular right now. That's a perfectly good reason for hyperbole. I'd never tell anyone not to smoke pot, do muchrooms, or drop acid, but I *will* tell them to stay the hell away from ecstasy (that said, I *would* caution people against the use of LSD and mushrooms if they have a history of mental illness in the family).

But, preaching these things is just dangerous and stupid:

"KNOW YOUR MIND
KNOW YOUR BODY
KNOW YOUR DRUGS
KNOW YOUR SOURCE"

Let's just say for a second that I agree with this for *adults*.

But, what about kids? How many really "know their minds?" Many of the kids who would get into this stuff don't even have fully formed brains yet. How in the hell could they possibly know them?

And their bodies? When you're young, you're invincible, and it will make you do stupid things.

I guess I have to give a little and say that adults should do whatever they want to do (even if it's stupid), but this is the wrong attitude to promote because it might reach the wrong people.

I know for a fact, actually, that there is someone as young as 13 who regularly reads my blog. Do you think I want *him* getting this message?

If he's reading this thread, what's he supposed to think? Which would be better for him?

Argument 1:

- Ecstasy is bad
- Ecstasy will fuck you up
- Be smart and stick with the weenie drugs if you're going to do anything at all

Argument 2:

- Ecstasy is fine
- Just be good friends with your dealer

I realize I've put spin on this, but I can't help it.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

But that's just because I'm angry.
December 30, 2004 7:48 PM
 

George said:

Well, obviously my several attempts to lighten up this impending train wreck of comments with some humor didn't work.

So good luck to you all. You've really done it now, you've unleashed the beast and the beast is ANGRY!

Go get-em Rory!!

ROAR!!!!
December 30, 2004 8:35 PM
 

Steven Padfield said:

As any 13 year old knows, "Just Say No" is a load of horse shit.

So what we have is really:

Argument 1:
- Ecstasy is bad
- Ecstasy will fuck you up
- Be smart and stick with the weenie drugs if you're going to do anything at all

In other words, don't ever learn how to make a responsible choice about this drug, just trust someone else who doesn't know what it's like to be in your shoes.

Argument 2:
- MDMA was invented in the mid-80s and found to heighten a user's senses and increase one's ability to feel and communicate emotion
- Common side effects are overheating, dehydration, loss of motor control, slurred speech, grinding teeth, inability to visually focus, impaired judgment, lack of inhibition, and in greater dosages, loss of consciousness, seizures, and death.
- Street ecstasy is always cut with other possibly dangerous drugs, like methamphetamine, or DXM, the combination of which can cause brain damage and/or death.
- Taking ecstasy with an MAOI will kill you.
- Ecstasy can dehydrate you, so you have to drink lots of water.
- Drinking too much water can be harmful or fatal.
- Ecstasy severely impairs your ability to drive. Do not under any circumstances try to operate a car under the influence of any drug.
- Ecstasy can make unprotected sex seem like a good idea. Do you really want to be a father/mother?
- Frequent use of ecstasy can lead to loss of neural function.
- Ecstasy can bring certain psychological and emotional disorders/traumas to the surface.
- Ecstasy is illegal and you can end up in jail for possessing or using it.

In other words, I strongly recommend against doing it, and these are the reasons why.

Which argument do you think leads to a safer, more responsible society? The fact is that people are GOING to take ecstasy, just like people are GOING to have sex. Telling them to abstain just increases the risk. Teaching them how to be responsible reduces risk and empowers individuals.

I agree with your point that it is irrelevant whether pure MDMA is safe or not. The fact is that street ecstasy is ALWAYS cut with something. Usually methamphetamine, but also sometimes, amphetamine, valium, MDA, DXM (very bad combo!!), cocaine, etc.

So yes, it is good advice to tell someone to stay away from ecstasy. But to stop there and never explain why means you are perpetuating the sociopolitical misconception that drugs are evil and should continue to be criminalized, thus furthering the problem you are trying to solve.

I made mistakes in my youth, but I'm better for it. I'm not saying it's OK to engage in reckless behavior. What I am saying is that what makes behavior reckless is the choices you make, not the chemistry of a drug. To take a pill with an unknown amount of an unknown drug is reckless. To take a piece of blotter with an unknown amount of an unknown drug is also reckless.

Saying ecstasy will fuck you up, but LSD is OK, is a totally inaccurate thing to say. And please, never cite fraudulent research. MDMA does not cause any more brain damage than orange juice. (As an aside, consider the fact that until recently, it has been impossible to get permission from the DEA to study any illegal drug unless you are trying to prove it’s dangerous. How can the results of such research be accurate and unbiased? Ergo, the monkey study.)

I'm a big proponent for personal responsibility, and I have a tendency to push back against any person or entity that says I don't need to know the facts. The government has been telling us what to say and think ever since the drug war began almost 100 years ago. Remember the real reasons that drugs are illegal; it has nothing to do with health or safety.

So, back to the personal responsibility aspect... I don't do drugs. I used to. But I am all in favor of legalizing everything, because the sooner the government lets us be in charge of our own choices and our own lives, the sooner we can start learning how to make good choices and lead good lives.

The subject is an especially critical one for teens, because there is so much rebellion and angst at that age, that anything short of total honesty and respect will only fuel their self destruction. If you treat people like children, they will continue to feel and act like children, and never learn how to make good choices.

So what's wrong with just teaching a child that the right choice is to "just say no"? Because that child has peers, and peers are vastly more influential than parents or authority figures. When that child is actually faced with a scenario where friends of his are dabbling in drugs, he is faced with this choice:

A) go with my friends, whom I know and trust, whom I rely on, who rely on me. my friends who know who i am.

B) just say no, even though I don't understand why I'm supposed to say that, even though I don’t trust the source of that advice, and even though I will endure embarrassment and the loss of friends, which will make my already tumultuous teenage existence even more unhappy and confused.

If he picks (A) then he's making an unsafe, uninformed decision, a decision he may regret. If he picks (B) then he's making a "safe" yet still uninformed decision, and it is also a decision he may regret.

No matter what happens, you are setting up the child for disappointment, regret, confusion, and an inability to understand responsibility. Why not go with choice (C), and give him the tools he needs to be in charge of his life and his choices?

My side of the argument is highly idealized, and I think there is a middle of the road that we could both agree on.
December 30, 2004 9:19 PM
 

Rory said:

Steven -

"Which argument do you think leads to a safer, more responsible society? The fact is that people are GOING to take ecstasy, just like people are GOING to have sex. Telling them to abstain just increases the risk. Teaching them how to be responsible reduces risk and empowers individuals."

Yeah - I agree with *all* of that. I really do.

However, this is *not* a "why you shouldn't take ecstasy" post. It's a story about a stoner who had a weird day. That's it.

The "don't do ecstasy" bit was just a footnote. It would have been irresponsible to have posted this without having made it clear that I'm not down with just going out and doing whatever drug comes your way. So, I stuck in a little message.

If I were to do a proper "here's why you shouldn't do ecstasy" post, then it would have been a hell of a lot longer than that little paragraph. I wanted to temper the story with a little bit of sense. It's not like I was ordering everybody to follow my advice.

When it comes down to it, if you have a choice between:

1. Not saying anything at all

and

2. Saying something that at least gets the ball rolling

you might be doing someone a favor by choosing number 2. At least that's what I think.

Your mileage may vary.

"But to stop there and never explain why means you are perpetuating the sociopolitical misconception that drugs are evil and should continue to be criminalized, thus furthering the problem you are trying to solve."

Yeah, yeah, yeah... But this is *not* a post where I'm trying to solve a problem. I was trying to deliver what I thought was an amusing anecdote while not encouraging the young readers of my blog to make stupid decisions.

It's not a political post. It's not meant to be the beginning of any kind of social reform. It's a fucking *story*. I put a message in because I thought it was the right thing to do.

Period.

"Saying ecstasy will fuck you up, but LSD is OK, is a totally inaccurate thing to say. And please, never cite fraudulent research. MDMA does not cause any more brain damage than orange juice."

Dude. Wow.

OK.

That's just crap, and I don't have the time or energy to argue about it. It's just going to piss me off to go down this road.

So, thanks for the wisdom, but I'll keep on drinking orange juice, thankyouverymuch.
December 30, 2004 9:42 PM
 

Steven Padfield said:

You're right, I was spinning off on another manic, self-righteous tangent. Sorry, I have a tendency to do that...
December 30, 2004 9:58 PM
 

Rory said:

Steven -

"You're right, I was spinning off on another manic, self-righteous tangent. Sorry, I have a tendency to do that..."

This is weird.

I was actually about to comment and apologize for my tone.

While I'm somewhat irritated that this became a thread about ecstasy, it's not like I didn't see the possibility of that happening.

So, yeah - I'm irritated, but not justified in being such a prick.

I agree with a lot of what you said. I disagreed with other bits of it. But, I shouldn't be losing my temper. I'm actually a bit stressed right now due to some other things in my life, and it has nothing (well, very little, anyway) to do with this thread.

Sorry, then, for having been a bit of an asshole. It's just been a very trying month for me, and I seem to be lashing out at the wrong time and against the wrong people.
December 30, 2004 10:15 PM
 

anton said:

Hey Rory, although I dont do drugs, I've put together something that may seem like I do- Check it out at shrinkster.com/2xp . It's based on rumours floating around about your behavior at the MVP summit. Anyways, love the blog and dot net rocks!
December 30, 2004 10:40 PM
 

Scott said:

"Drinking too much water can be harmful or fatal. "

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... drugs are bad m'kay.

"MDMA does not cause any more brain damage than orange juice. (As an aside, consider the fact that until recently, it has been impossible to get permission from the DEA to study any illegal drug unless you are trying to prove it’s dangerous. How can the results of such research be accurate and unbiased? Ergo, the monkey study.) "

The study I linked to (http://www.maps.org/w3pb/new/2003/2003_buchert_6041_1.pdf)
was conducted in Hamburg, Germany on 4 different groups of people, not monkeys. Each group had a population of at least 20 (n>20) so as to be statistically significant. The four groups were:

1)active ecstasy users
2) former ecstasy users
3) drug-naieve people
4) people using psychoactive agents other than ecstasy


So enough with the X, the real question is: How many times did you and your friends smoke a blunt of pure cat shit and oregano thinking you had scored some major weed Rory? hehe
December 30, 2004 11:05 PM
 

Rabblecast said:

I'm glad to say I've never taken any illegal drugs.

You can lead a happy life without drugs, so why put your health at risk by dabbling?

Other people taking drugs have made me extremely unhappy though.

Plus by buying drugs you are funding criminals who, once you get to a certain hierarchical level, tend to be pretty unpleasant people - i.e. they have no compassion for others and would be happy to see people die if it increased their profits.

I hope your neurons haven't sustained any long term damage Rory, because I know this is the kind of thing you worry about.

December 31, 2004 1:48 AM
 

3rdWorld said:

i smoked weed and drove out. that was stupid. luckily i didnt kill anybody. other times. i spent it at home by myself enjoying the high.
December 31, 2004 3:24 AM
 

Joe Duffy said:

Man... I must say, this is one of the best essays I've ever read. On one level, it's very well written and extremely entertaining. On another, it brings back memories in the most frightening of ways (of days long ago, of course).

The feeling as described quite accurately describes the almost indescribable feeling of PCP-laced pot -- the body "particalizing" and coming back together in waves, the extreme cotton mouth, and so on.

I must say from personal experience, though, friends who took to meth, for example, have turned out much worse than those who participated in a little X now and again (i.e. completely gone). I had friends who did LSD on a daily basis, and they're just as bad (if not worse) nowadays. Regardless of the drug du jour, however, I'm finding that those who did _anything_ for a prolonged period of time past their high-school days have turned into complete vegetables.
December 31, 2004 8:09 AM
 

Psychotic Rambler said:

I donate to erowid.org because it provides somewhat less biased information on all of this stuff than most other sites on the internet, to the point that many doctors in Emergency Rooms around the country (the world?) actually use it as a resource when kids come in freaking out or having a medical emergency due to some odd Research Chemical or other obscure drug they've taken. Try getting useful information like that off of any of the DEA-sponsored sites. And as for the MDMA thing, yeah, there's the whole 'is it really MDMA' question, since MDMA is often mixed in with various adulterants, including DXM these days, which I can say certainly causes some sort of impairment that is long lasting, if not permanent. (Check out William White's essay on NMDA Antagonist Neurotoxicity, the rebuttal by some other guy, and then the rebuttal of the rebuttal. Etc.)

And now, to eat, and to work!
January 4, 2005 3:24 PM
 

Haacked said:

Hey man, hope things mellow out for you. Perhaps a little weed will help. ;)

As for the question of is MDMA in that pill, DanceSafe is at many raves and offers free testing. You can purchase a testing kit at their website.

In any case, better safe than sorry and avoid it unless you know for sure.

"Oh, He's the Good drug dealer" -- Go (1999)
January 8, 2005 1:55 PM
 

Mez said:

I used to be a regular and fairly heavy ecstasy user. I also used to be a regular pot user.

I can say, without a doubt, that my use of pot has been far more damaging for my life than my use of ecstasy.

There is no evidence that ecstasy causes "plenty" of permanent brain damage, and precious little evidence that it causes any. It definitely causes temporary changes in brain chemistry that last much longer than the high.

I think that you are a victim of propaganda, which doesn't really surprise me considering that ridiculous lies about drugs that the US government perpetrates... but then again... would we expect any less from a terrorist state?

I have been a subject of extensive testing by an experienced Psychologist, who has found in his research that the damage caused by ecstasy does manifest in testing, and that it is specifically to do with how me make new memories (remember/learn). He has also found that this damage only occurs in regular users, and that the damage is almost negligible.

Check out [url=www.erowid.org]Erowid[/url]
January 10, 2005 3:24 AM
 

Rory said:

Mez -

"I think that you are a victim of propaganda, which doesn't really surprise me considering that ridiculous lies about drugs that the US government perpetrates"

What my education at a *very* liberal Liberal Arts college has to do with government propaganda is beyond me.

"... but then again... would we expect any less from a terrorist state?"

[yawn]

"I have been a subject of extensive testing by an experienced Psychologist..."

That's a fabulous reference.

Anyway, there are competing studies.
January 10, 2005 6:15 AM
 

Andrew said:

Rory, a similar experience happened to Felix and I back in the day at the coast when our bag of pot got moldy and we smoked it anyway. Damn NW humidity...
January 11, 2005 11:14 PM
 

Julie said:

Hey man i just read your story and shit your a good writer. I could totally imagen everything in it. Shit wow so your done with pot huh? wow well good for you. I myself am a stoner i mean user and can't really imagen quiting. Mostly because i enjoy looking back on the freak out moments and just laughing my ass off on how out of it i was.I think about quiting and sometimes do for a month or too but life is just so blah without it.It's like that one guy said "it's like riding you bike through knee deep peanut butter". I can't remember what guy said that or where i read it but yeah anyway loved the story and hey got anymore?
October 14, 2005 4:26 PM
 

Anonymous said:

i had a somewhat similar experience..
did you find out if it was laced?
did your friends feel the same way?
how long did the effects last?
April 14, 2006 12:38 AM
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