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Work for JeffSand Team - One Position Left

I've been chatting with some of my old coworkers recently. The people I wrote about - the ones I miss.

The ex-boss called, too. Made the conversation. Got caught up.

Something we talked about is that he has an open position on his team. He was wondering if I knew anybody who'd be a good fit. I could start suggesting people, but I think it's best if they see what the job is and decide for themselves if it's something they'd want to do.

Very briefly about the job... it's a dev position. Front-end stuff, AJAX stuff, some behind-the-scenes stuff. You'd be working under Duncan Mackenzie - he's done a lot of writing for MSDN - done a lot of everything, actually. And, despite being Canadian, he's a good guy.

I've never worked for him, so I can't comment on his boss-skills, but we were ultimately on the same team, ate lunch together, and argued a lot about whether the plural of "Lego" is just "Lego" or "Legos." Apparently, Canadians think it's inappropriate to pluralize "Lego" with the trailing "s." I think that's crap, but, again, despite this shortcoming, he's a good guy.

Now, about JeffSand Team... JeffSand, if you, like, dunno, is a sort of incidental brand name for Jeff Sandquist and the stuff he does. I didn't think of myself as a Channel 9 employee so much as a JeffSand Team employee.

Jeff has headed up and been involved with some big stuff. Channel 9, if you're into the Microsoft dev stuff, is probably something you already know about. There's also Channel 10 which is more of a tech-enthusiast site, dealing with everything from those nifty surface interface computer things to Xbox 360 games and interviews (there's a lot of dispute over whether to call it "Channel 10" or "On 10" - I prefer "Channel 10," and I suspect another Canadian conspiracy here). A recent project is Channel 8 - it's oriented toward the younger, academic crowd. I haven't visited that one as much, but that's because I had a .86 GPA in high-school before I dropped out, and I'd feel like an imposter if I went and hung around such a site. Still, it might be a way to meet cute freshman undergrad ladies.

If you aren't going through the worst personal problems of your life, JeffSand is the place to be. It wasn't a good fit for me at the time, but I've gone over that already, again and again. I also don't like Redmond or Bellevue or Seattle. Many people dig it, but it's not for me. Point being, my implosion wasn't because of JeffSand Team itself - it was the environment in my head as well as the one in which I was living.

One of the best things about JeffSand Team is that it's well established that it's a creative, rebellious sect within a company that, like all huge companies, tries to keep things under control. But, because of the overwhelming success of sites like 9, JeffSand Team is well shielded against bullshit internal politics. There's a big "Don't Fuck With These People" shield sitting between JeffSand and the rest of the company. People on the outside get upset, but Jeff and the rest of the management team don't let it get beyond their layer. The stress of knowing people are screaming for your head can be horrible, so that protection is a perk in itself.

I had a lot of fun as an MSDN Events speaker, but for the second of the two years I was on the team, politics were a nightmare. The weekly calls from people wanting to fire me got to be a bit much. I didn't have to deal with that at all while working for Jeff, and that's despite my poor performance (again, due to freaky personal stuff). In fact, the first time in my life that I deserved to be fired from a job was on JeffSand Team, but everybody on the team was there for me. They weren't judgmental - probably because the team is composed of all the colors of the weirdbow, and they operated around me with the understanding that people sometimes just lose it for any number of reasons.

All the warm fuzzy stuff aside, working on JeffSand Team is demanding. But, unlike many other demanding positions, you aren't going to be pushed to work fifty, sixty, eighty hours a week. There'll be times when you'll choose to work harder because you recognize that it's a privilege to be where you are. I once sat in my office for thirty-six straight hours to edit a video. Nobody made me do it. I could have worked on it over the period of a week or two, but I wanted to get it done. Had Jeff found out, actually, rather than applaud my marathon, he probably would have sent me home and then to bed without dinner.

It's a team of real people. It's a small dysfunctional family, and that's hard to find. You'll find teams in every company where people are superficially involved with each other, but there's a feeling of solidarity around the team. Half of them acted as my own personal team of shrinks. We'd travel together. We'd get stressed out and yell at each other. When things calmed down, though, we didn't hold stupid grudges.

And, one thing we definitely weren't was a group of backstabbing corporate-ladder climbers.

That's a family.

If you're a coder, and if this sounds like something you'd like to do, then I suggest you look into it. The pay's good, the benefits are amazing, and it'll turn into a dead-end job because you won't want to work on any other team. That's a good thing, by the way. You could totally move on to some lame management position elsewhere in the company, but why would you?

That's probably enough writing for now. The last thing I'll say is not to psych yourself out. I've seen tons of forum postings where people decide before even trying that JeffSand Team is the club you can't get into. It's true that it's an exclusive thing, but it's completely doable if you know your stuff. It's not about who you know. I'm serious about that last part. Jeff has hired many unknowns. He's a little like George Lucas that way, except he doesn't have the budget to insert CGI Ewoks into everything you do.

Goferit. You'll have a demmed hard time topping a position with Jeff.

Published Wednesday, February 20, 2008 3:26 PM by Rory

Filed Under: ,

Comments

 

markp said:

Only Americans say "Legos" :)

From <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego#Trademark">Wikipedia</a>:

<blockquote>
The Lego Group's name has become so synonymous with its flagship toy that many refer to the bricks themselves (collectively) as "Lego" or "Legos" (the latter term being common only in US English), although the Lego Group considers such uses to be trademark dilution. Lego catalogues in the 1970s and 1980s contained a note that read:

"The word LEGO® is a brand name and is very special to all of us in the LEGO Group Companies. We would sincerely like your help in keeping it special. Please always refer to our bricks as 'LEGO Bricks or Toys' and not 'LEGOS.' By doing so, you will be helping to protect and preserve a brand of which we are very proud and that stands for quality the world over. Thank you! Susan Williams, Consumer Services."
</blockquote>
February 20, 2008 4:03 PM
 

markp said:

erk no html tags allowed? sorry about that
February 20, 2008 4:04 PM
 

Chris said:

Most of the people I know would rather eat their own vomit than work for Jeff or Bill Gates for that matter. I fired and so many people quit from BeerCo(10 employees in 2 years), and now I'm shutting down so I can get the hell out of Canada for good because deep down I always hated Canada. hmmmm.....

I nominate Alain Deschenes. A French Canadian programmer that recently quit due to stress. He has a college degree and is an MBA as well as a software engineer. I felt worse about him going than anybody else. Now I spend my weekends filling the hole he left.
alain.deschenes__AT__gmail.com

If you do hire him, make sure and ask him what a good boss I am.
I believe Alain will need a visa, because unlike me, he is a real honest to god Canuck. I have a US passport coming at the consulate on the other hand. I am not a "true" Canadian, nor was I ever. God I hate Canada. So glad to be heading to LA.
February 20, 2008 4:04 PM
 

Chris said:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8606487@N03/2251341352/sizes/l/

That was him right there shortly before he left. He wanted to use windows, but I asked him to use the iMac. He did so for 8 months, before he left. One button. I should have set him up with Linux, but I couldn't bare to waste a $2000 machine. That's the last time I buy a mac.

That's as close to a pic of him I could take with our NDAs. The strongest NDA in the IT business.
February 20, 2008 4:19 PM
 

Rory said:

markp -

"erk no html tags allowed? sorry about that"

Only for anti-American commie scum.

HTML tags work if you're American or if you've sworn your undying devotion and allegiance to this country and its leader (I'm the leader).

However, because Americans are humble and prefer not to show off, you won't see them using their HTML tag capabilities here.

That's what we're known for.

Humility. Grace. A profound appreciation for other cultures.
February 20, 2008 6:01 PM
 

Rory said:

Chris -

"Most of the people I know would rather eat their own vomit than work for Jeff or Bill Gates for that matter."

Like anything - any company or job - this isn't for everybody.

But, for the people who are interested, it's a good opportunity.
February 20, 2008 6:02 PM
 

The Cowboy said:

No time for intellectual comments...  working on resume....

(Like I ever leave intellectual comments)

(HTML tags removed to protect the innocent)
February 20, 2008 6:29 PM
 

Chris said:

"Like anything - any company or job - this isn't for everybody."

Such as it wasn't for you. I understand that. I know a lot of people that don't fall on the MS side of the fence though, so my comment was accurate, not aimed as a slant. The people I know really would never want that job. They are also well off and could care less about the money. The only people I know that would jump at the chance are people just out of school like the people that used to work in my offices.

You also made a grammatical error:
(near the end)
"and it'll turn into a dead-end job because you won't to work on any other team."

February 20, 2008 7:32 PM
 

Ian said:

Chris, you made a spelling mistake near the end there..

"but I couldn't bare to waste a $2000 machine. That's the last time I buy a mac. "

I think you meant bear..
February 20, 2008 9:25 PM
 

Celes said:

Oh snap!
February 20, 2008 9:55 PM
 

Now, LOLZ aside: Working for Microsoft | www.nickhodge.com said:

February 20, 2008 10:12 PM
 

Erik Porter said:

Thanks for the kind words.  Miss you!  :)

Shrink #5,
Erik
February 20, 2008 10:15 PM
 

Rory said:

The Cowboy -

"No time for intellectual comments...  working on resume...."

Are you? If you're thinking about it, feel free to hit me up with questions - about the team, the company, the bawss, and so on :)
February 20, 2008 11:27 PM
 

Rory said:

Chris -

"Such as it wasn't for you. I understand that. I know a lot of people that don't fall on the MS side of the fence though, so my comment was accurate, not aimed as a slant"

Gotcha.

"You also made a grammatical error"

Fixed - thanks for pointing that out...
February 20, 2008 11:28 PM
 

Rory said:

Erik -

"Thanks for the kind words.  Miss you!  :)"

Missing me is a perfectly normal reaction to my absence - kind of like missing your kidnapper.

It happens.

"Shrink #5"

You sell yourself short - you sat across from me for a year - if I was so much as slightly bummed that my favorite flavor of yogurt was sold out in the cafe, you were the first to hear about it :)
February 20, 2008 11:30 PM
 

Chris said:

"Apparently, Canadians think it's inappropriate to pluralize "Lego" with the trailing "s.""

Canadians are backwards. I found this link the other day. Having lived in Canadia for 10 years or slightly more, I can safely say that this summarizes the entire country perfectly:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v0EQI7sla4c

If I had to live here for one more year, I would no doubt go postal for real.
February 21, 2008 8:09 AM
 

The Cowboy said:

@Rory
"Are you? If you're thinking about it, feel free to hit me up with questions - about the team, the company, the bawss, and so on :)"

At the risk of earning the disdain of some of the other readers, absolutely!  And I'm not even right out of college either :)

I didn't actually send the resume, since his post didn't mention anything about resumes.  Lacking a twitter or facebook account, I sent an e-mail with a quick "Hi this is who I am and why you might want to consider me" sort of body.  Hope it makes the cut....

I'll shoot you an e-mail tonight and we can talk about the pepples.  Thanks for the heads up :D
February 21, 2008 10:21 AM
 

Rory said:

The Cowboy -

"I didn't actually send the resume, since his post didn't mention anything about resumes."

Yeah... Jeff is a bit more lax than a lot of corporate types. I imagine that, if you get his attention, it'll move on to the resume stage. But, as man hiring manager in tech know, there's very little you can learn about someone through a resume. Geeks lie like crazy - how do you know who to trust? Might as well work on gut feelings rather than focusing on a piece of paper.

It's a good way to do it, methinks.

"I'll shoot you an e-mail tonight and we can talk about the pepples.  Thanks for the heads up :D"

Yep :)
February 21, 2008 6:41 PM
 

Jersey Girl said:

First you want Microsoft to fire 40,000 people, and now you're recruiting for them?

Theory and practice ;-)
February 22, 2008 5:42 AM
 

Robert Scoble said:

I totally agree about the quality of JeffSand's team. It was a life changing experience and Jeff is a rocking great guy to work for. One thing he taught me: ship early, ship often. It's something I've tried to keep in play even after I left Microsoft. Speaking of which, gotta run, got another video to do.
February 22, 2008 12:48 PM
 

Max said:

I'm one the unknowns that somehow got drafted into the JeffSand team (Channel 8 guy)...... it was one of those weird "don't call us, we'll call you" deals where I didn't even apply for the C8 position until I was acctually approached by the team about it.

I was originally very apprehensive about it, but Jeff convinced me it was the place for me.  It has now been a few months and I have been loving it... and after reading this and realizing I was nodding my head several times, I know I have no regrets.  The best/worst part is that "dead end job" idea is so true.... I have NO intention of going anywhere else.
February 22, 2008 7:09 PM
 

Rory said:

Jersey Girl -

"First you want Microsoft to fire 40,000 people, and now you're recruiting for them?"

I have so many excuses. I'm not going to list them. Just understand that they're all compelling.

"Resistance is useless," as the Vogons say.

Actually, your comment is right-on. In my other post, I didn't get specific about which people I want fired. I *do* have a list - 40,000 people on the dot. I would have posted it, but I didn't want "Brought the internet to its knees by posting a really big list, thereby halting the progress of mankind and annihilating the world economy" on my resume.

I *have* thought a lot about this. The practical way to look at it is in terms of divisions.

Microsoft - and Google is getting this way, too - has a few bread 'n butter divisions. The Office and Windows people, for example. But it also has a billion little loser crap stupid lame crap crap crap teams, and those billion little loser crap stupid lame crap crap crap teams are the hard ones to discover and then destroy. Each small div may be small, but they add up.

It's like your messy apartment. It's easy to shift around the big stuff. Like putting the toilet back in the bathroom after a party - you just drag it from the kitchen to the bathroom and then set it in place.

The hard part is cleaning up the blood. Yeah, there's a big, obvious pool of it right around where the toilet was in the kitchen, but there are also many smaller drops that lead out through the living room and, eventually, to the storage freezer outside.

It's the details - that's the hard part. Moving a toilet is a simple matter compared to getting all the blood off the tile and out of the carpet before the cops show up.

Whoah... sorry. Didn't mean to drag my personal life into this.

I'm just saying that it's best to work with the big stuff - it's the smaller things that get you into trouble.
February 23, 2008 12:39 AM
 

Rory said:

Robert -

"I totally agree about the quality of JeffSand's team. It was a life changing experience and Jeff is a rocking great guy to work for. One thing he taught me: ship early, ship often."

I was going to respond to this comment, but then it turned into a post.

I'll put it up later :)
February 23, 2008 12:42 AM
 

Rory said:

Max -

"I'm one the unknowns that somehow got drafted into the JeffSand team (Channel 8 guy)...... it was one of those weird 'don't call us, we'll call you' deals where I didn't even apply for the C8 position until I was acctually approached by the team about it."

Congrats :)

That's how I got my first job at MS. There were a couple offers before the one I accepted, but they were the predictable ones - coding, testing, etc. - the public speaking job offer was a hell of a surprise.

Cool that you're out there. I plan to start checking out 8 even though, as I said, I'm pretty much the worst student in the history of education for the entire universe.

"I was originally very apprehensive about it, but Jeff convinced me it was the place for me.  It has now been a few months and I have been loving it..."

I don't know if you'll be back to follow the comments, but if you do come back, I'd love to hear a little about why you were apprehensive.

"... and after reading this and realizing I was nodding my head several times, I know I have no regrets. The best/worst part is that 'dead end job' idea is so true.... I have NO intention of going anywhere else."

It'd be interesting, after several more years, to track where old JeffSand Team employees wind up.

Scoble went on to his venture... Adam Kinney went from coder to evangelist (a position for which he's very well suited). I've gone on to be a bum (though I'm slowly easing myself back into the world of the working).

Yep.

Be neat to know...
February 23, 2008 12:48 AM
 

Robert Scoble said:

And Lenn Pryor is now a vice president at Nokia.
February 23, 2008 1:08 AM
 

Chris said:

This may interest people. Amazon is currently looking for people for landing page optimization. If you can survive a barrage of equation questions, with the last question being "what was the n order of that", go 4 it. Linden labs and Jooce also need people. I made it to the final round of interviews at 2 of those 3 companies. At the very end I told them I needed at least a month to liquidate and that was always a deal breaker. BUT, if you are looking for a job, those 3 are looking for people with strong C++ skills. You may not have people to fire and desks to liquidate, so you may have a better chance.
February 23, 2008 8:48 AM
 

Chris said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithm
Specifically, you will need to be good enough to have written these wikipedia entries for the first 2. You will also need to know the n order recursion of just about anything. And you will need to be able to move cross country on dime. I know for a fact from calls that they are still hiring.
February 23, 2008 8:53 AM
 

Chris said:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8606487@N03/2286444724/

Again, Jooce is looking for programmers. These are the contacts. The one VC dude owns skype(I think he got mad at me), ironically where Lenn used to work, and the other guy is just a manager. They aren't like Amazon or Linden, ect.... Google ect...
You don't have to be an algorithm ninja to work there and they are far less picky. Again FYI. The only thing they really ask which I couldn't do is to just pack up and go immediately. Actually they all asked me that.

Again, if Jeff turns you down, now you have some skype contacts for another easyish job.
February 23, 2008 9:38 AM
 

paul said:

Nice to see Robert and Rory back on commenting terms, when I told Jeff that Robert and Rory were my favorite bloggers his eyes opened wide and bugged out of their sockets.

After two years I still don't know what on10 is, Jeff should call me.
February 24, 2008 10:51 AM
 

Will said:

If only it wasn't 4,681 miles away.

:/
February 24, 2008 2:15 PM
 

Jersey Girl said:

So you fight the Medusa by planting regular hairs on her head? Clever.
February 24, 2008 4:24 PM
 

The Cowboy said:

"So you fight the Medusa by planting regular hairs on her head? Clever."

A better analogy might be attempting to save a life by cutting out the cancer cells.  Nearly every organization I've ever worked for has bloat in the form of useless people who try very hard to appear useful, and in doing so make life insanely difficult for those of us actually trying to accomplish something.  I'm dealing with it right now actually, and I can list by name who needs to be fired in order to save the project.  Stating that Microsoft has 40,000 people who constitute dead weight (or worse) and saying that one of the teams there is looking for talent is hardly contradictory.  

Having almost entirely but not completely nothing to do with what I just said, I reccomend buying a Samuel Barber CD.
February 25, 2008 8:10 PM
 

Max said:

Hey Rory, to answer your questions:

My hesitation about this position was based on a few things:

a) I was living in Boston and loving it.  I had finally made some really good friends, felt at home there, and I had a decent handle on my job for once (I was at MS in Boston, so I'm not new to MS).  I just didn't really want to leave... so location was one issue.

Turns out Seattle is awesome, I ride an MS only bus to work that has internet and that's amazing in itself, and I'm enjoying the weather (hey it's better than Boston's).

b) Corporate.  The main reason I joined MS at all was because I was in the field in a small office... big company name, small company feel.  It rocked.  I hated everything I had heard about the politics and slow-moving corporate lifestyle--except the free chocolate milk--and I wanted nothing to do with it.

Turns out Jeff's team is just not the normal team, as you had mentioned.  I have an office and I am on campus, yet I feel like I'm in a different world.  I go places and I can say "Yes, I'm Microsoft." Or instead I can say, "yes, I'm press."  Sometimes one gets me in, other times it's the other.

c) It was a pay cut.  Yes that's right it was a pay cut and I still took it... that's how good they were at convincing me (what IS in that chocolate milk?!).  Look in the end, it's not about the money, it's about loving what you do... and this gave me the chance to go from enterprise sized businesses to the worldwide student community... big time change, big opportunity.

Anyway, like I said, I have no regrets about it... you can see my adventures at my blog if you like to see my transition: http://zuckit.com  (for those of you who find the URL offensive, feel free to go to http://thezuck.com instead).  Rory, you can go zuckit. ;)

ps: yes I realize how corny that last comment was, and I did it anyway.  I guess I've been hanging around Laura Foy too much.
February 26, 2008 6:01 PM
 

BetsyA said:

a) Yes, Jeff Rulz. Duncan - you DO want to work for Duncan. Why doI not work for Duncan? Because I cannot code the mad light fantastico.... I am still working on an Xbox game where the cod intercepts martinis.  This is my life.

b) Good to see Rory/Robert commenting again, as some other poster mentioned.

c) Pay that plumber well Rory - dang. Glad to see you writing feisty here and on Mini too. :)

Betsy
February 26, 2008 8:36 PM
 

Jeff Sandquist said:

Thanks everyone for all the nice things that you've said about our team.

Really nice stuff.

February 26, 2008 9:25 PM
 

paul said:

Jeff do you often find yourself waking-up in the middle of the night to the sound of applause?
February 28, 2008 9:31 AM
 

Chris said:

ztpnquklq,

When you post spam, aren't your domains supposed to resolve?
February 29, 2008 11:57 AM
 

Zer0Mass said:

So if somehow I managed (which would be beyond cool) to land that channel 10 job (I am fairly sure I would wet myself if I did) do you think I would be allowed to do peace on Lego(s)?  Although if I did get that chance I think I would explode from the happiness; I do that some times.
February 29, 2008 2:13 PM
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