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Scoble - You missed the point

I just wrote a post about how Scoble ought to consider the performance of his own company before he goes around trashing the performance of others.

In it, I pointed out that PodTech (and this is according to what Scoble wrote himself), isn't exactly cost-effective.

I said this just so he'd have an understanding of what it's like to have your company trashed by some know-it-all blogger who doesn't actually know it all.

He left me a comment that I feel is worthy of its own post. I'd respond in my comments section, but this is something I'd like everybody to see.

And if you wonder I care about what Scoble says, it's because, right or wrong, he has a lot of influence, and the last thing I want to see is someone take what he says about the company I work for (or any company for that matter - whether it's Microsoft or one of our competitors, there are (believe it or not) real, live people behind the products and services he's always slamming, evidently not caring how it affects their lives).

I'll respond to his comment point by point.

I love ironies!

As you'll see, nothing about my post was ironic.

Rory, go ask Jeff Sandquist how many millions of dollars have been spent on Channel 9 and Channel 10.

Now, can you prove that they make money for Microsoft?

Evangelism at Microsoft isn't about creating profit. As you know (or at least I'd hope you knew this while at MS), we're a "cost center."

For anyone who doesn't know, a cost center at Microsoft is a division that's not expected to turn a profit. The last team I worked on was a cost center.

The reason Microsoft spends money on teams that don't directly produce cash is simple: Customer satisfaction.

The reason I went all over, giving four hour talks to audiences in three different countries, being on the road for weeks or months at a time, was to provide customer satisfaction. That's it. It was a "thank you" from Microsoft. That's why the talks were free, and that's why we gave away so much stuff.

We weren't expected to bring in new customers, or to convert anyone. My team was there to show our customers some of the nifty bits of code they could write with the software of ours they purchased. We understand that our stuff isn't free, and we're thankful people are buying it.

Channels 9 and 10 are also cost centers. We aren't expected to provide any sales leads. In the case of 9, it's all about giving the outside world a peek inside the company so that they can see we aren't evil.

Microsoft has an image problem - due to mistakes we make, but also due to people like you who seem to live for the chance to ream us in public every chance you get - and it's worth it to show everybody what's really going on.

As for the millions you refer to, we can do that because a company like Microsoft can afford to have cost centers.

When your entire company is a cost center, Robert, it's very different.

(How does it feel to wake up to a post trashing your work? Now you know how everybody else feels.)

I discovered the long-form video at Microsoft where we built up to 4.3 million unique visitors a month with NO PR, NO advertising, NO real support from the company at large.

Right.

You discovered it.

I imagine you also co-invented the internet with Al Gore.

As for the "long-form video" (that's such a bloggy name), I'm working on moving the interviews back into the 15 minute range.

I don't know if you've figured this out yet, but video is very demanding on a customer. Unlike audio, video can't just be put in the background and enjoyed passively. Sure, you can listen to the audio accompanying the video, but in many cases you also wind up losing a good portion of the content by doing so.

The solution, then, to give our visitors a chance to enjoy shorter videos without feeling the pressure to watch longer ones, is one I believe will greatly benefit the site in the future.

In other words, if you really did "discover" the "long-form video," then I suppose I have only you to blame.

Sit down with Jeff sometime and ask how we did that. You work for him, you should understand what Channel 9's power was -- the long-form video.

The market has changed. You of all people should realize that. Where the "long-form video" (I put it in quotes because I couldn't possibly take myself seriously otherwise) may have been useful back when there weren't tons of such sites, it just doesn't make sense anymore to do it on a regular basis. Charles has his Going Deep show, and it makes sense there. But, for the daily videos, I think it's insane to make people sit down and watch an hour of video. It's also arrogant. You're assuming that this person has nothing better to do than watch your videos all day.

Not cool.

If they had been edited no one would have paid any attention to them. How do I know that? Cause Microsoft had LOTs of video editors over at studios. Editors don't add value in a world where people want to listen to conversations.

Oh, good god. The Robert Scoble assertion-How Do I know?-explanation thing might work on the sycophants who'd do anything for a chance to be in your presence and agree with everything you're saying, but it doesn't take much critical thinking to see the flaws in what you're saying.

Telling me that nobody would have paid any attention to edited Channel 9 videos because nobody pays attention to Microsoft Studios video content is an absurd argument.

Hey - know what else Microsoft Studios videos had, other than editing?

Videos!

Know what else?

People!

Know what else?

Sound!

I could go on like this until it gets more ridiculous than it is, but you're buying your own hype.

Even Star Wars had editing, and it's just a tad more popular than Channel 9.

Tell you what - following your logic, I'm going to start editing videos for Channel 9 because more people know and care about Star Wars than they do about PodTech.

And bandwidth is the least of our concerns when it comes to money flowing out (several hosting companies have offered us free hosting, by the way and if I need free hosting I can always go to Google or Soapbox).

There's no such thing as "free" hosting. There's always a cost. Especially where a site like yours is concerned.

If cost weren't an issue, then why the sponsorship? Why worry about money at all?

In your own writing, you discussed how much it was costing to host the videos, and how you were losing on every viewing. After that, it doesn't do much good to say that bandwidth isn't much of a concern.

And my video traffic is doubling every few weeks.

Sorry. I can't imagine what this is doing to your bandwidth bill (doubling, perhaps, but I don't want to make any assumptions).

Also, I don't know precisely what you mean by "every few weeks," but, regardless of the metric, yours is a relatively new site, and you should expect to be growing quickly. Your name is well known, and you've used that to build an audience.

To calm any fears you might have about costs skyrocketing, I hope to console you by saying that you'll eventually reach a saturation point. There are only so many people in the world who want to watch the videos made by geeks.

Did I ever say we'll never be able to make money? We have 30 corporate clients at PodTech. You only have one. Oh, search Google for "demo of the year." Who do you see?

Uh... did I ever say that you said that you'll never be able to make money? No.

As for the rest of the paragraph, I'm surprised you'd engage in this kind of chest-beating.

You're Robert Scoble! The all powerful! The all knowing!

(All the same, congrats on the "demo of the year" search - I didn't test it, but I expect it's an amazing experience.)

Me. Talking about Microsoft.

That's the problem with your formulaic hatchet job. You don't understand this industry. You don't even understand why you have a job working for Channel 9.

My, you're getting nasty. All this because I simply called you out about writing your name in piss all over our work and our company.

Whatever you are now, you are in part because you had the "formulaic hatchet job" I have now. If it's the job and not the person that makes the difference, then we're the same (which you should find very flattering).

So, why do I have a job working for Channel 9? I'd love to know.

I thought I took the job because it's something I wanted to do, but if you know better than I why I have the job I have, then, by all means, explain to me my motives.

You also shouldn't be so quick to assume that I don't understand this industry. The fact is, I went from a total nobody to having your job in less than three years. I'm also quite a bit younger than you are. I'd say I've done fairly well.

I'm guessing that, if you think you're in a position to tell other people that they don't understand the industry, that you believe you understand it. This doesn't surprise me since you probably also believe you created it, or have changed it, or whatever.

If you've changed it in any way, it's been by showing people that trashing companies - yours and others - you'll gain a lot of notoriety.

And that's about it.

Notoriety.

Not respect. Not success. Not the experience with which to be able to determine whether or not others understand an industry.

Ahh, the old Microsoft culture is seeping out from underneath the rug again. "If you aren't with us, you're against us and must be rooted out like all evil." That worked back when Microsoft was the only game in town and everyone needed to feed at the Microsoft trough. That is no longer true.

Dude. Seriously. You ought to think twice before signing your name to comments.

In my last post, I suggested that you're not in a position to say how a company can or can't make it. I didn't do it because I thought you were being an asshole (although we shouldn't cross that off the list). I did it because you have trashed so much in the industry (especially Microsoft), yet you haven't demonstrated that you can do any more than speculate.

Given how well known you are, I wasn't just going to sit by and watch as you spewed this crap. Your words have real effects. You might not be able to see your audience, but it's there. After you write something such as what you wrote Friday, you do damage to Microsoft's reputation. And don't even think of turning this around by saying we did this to ourselves. Until you can prove that what you're saying is true and take it beyond bad sensationalist blogging, your opinion, although influential, holds little weight with me.

And it has nothing to do with me thinking that anybody who opposes Microsoft must be "rooted out like evil."

That's your argument. That's your opinion. Hell, maybe that's even how you conducted yourself while here.

But don't assume I share your point of view.

What value have you added to Microsoft? I haven't seen you ship either. At least I shipped 600 videos while I was there and built an audience from nothing to 4.3 million a month in two years.

Kettle meet pot. Pot meet kettle.

Your ego really has no limits.

I'm not another company or person for you to attack. If you want to write a post about me, go ahead. I'll happily engage you in whatever argument you'd like to pick, and it'll a nice chance to spank you in public. You deserve it for every other company and person to which you've done the same.

I understand that you've shipped 600 videos. That's great. I don't know what you're trying to prove given that I've only been there since November, and you were there for two years.

Finally, you didn't build that audience on your own. There are plenty of people here who remember you and your attitude - the way you'd take credit for other people's ideas and efforts. The way internal discussions from mailing lists had a way of popping up on your site in a modified form, where you'd take credit for the thought, or for starting the "conversation." How you had wallpapered your office with articles about... you!

But I should apologize. It seems you aren't used to receiving what you dish out.

You see, I'm not in this to build incoming links, or to go to some blog award party. I'm not trying to build the Empire of Rory, or to take credit for things other people have done.

I just want to do a good job.

Because of that, I'm not at all worried about falling out of favor with you. I'm not worried about losing the huge influx of visitors I get from each Scoble link (I sometimes get tens of referrals).

In other words, you're going to have to do better if you want to convince me of anything.

So far, all you've done is show that you seem to think you shouldn't be treated as you treat others.

Published Sunday, March 18, 2007 4:04 PM by Rory

Filed Under: ,

Comments

 

ddewbofh (Dave) said:

Foxbar, noone's forcing you to read anything Rory or Robert writes. If he feels like expressing his opinion on HIS blog that's all up to him. I also think it provides insight in humanity and how people react to insults, it's his choice (and right) to express his opinion.
March 18, 2007 4:23 PM
 

Rory said:

Dave -

Thanks :)

Anyway, it's all right.

While I couldn't do much to control foxbar on 9, I can very easily get rid of his comments here.

(For anybody who's confused by Dave's response, it was to a comment from a spammer I've since removed (the comment - not the spammer - the spammer is still here, reading away...)a
March 18, 2007 4:34 PM
 

SK said:

Wow!!
March 18, 2007 5:36 PM
 

Dilip said:

Rory
Next time anyone looks at you like you are some kind of amusement factor in any techie gathering, feel free to call me up and I will personally come and bash the living daylights out of the said contender.

Good god! thats the most eloquent piece of post I have ever seen you write and to call it "uh.. he is entitled to his views" (comment #1) is doing a cosmic injustice to your expressive capabilities.  You put Scoble in his place.  Kudos!
March 18, 2007 6:13 PM
 

Dilip said:

doh.. my expressive capabilities just took a beating.  

It was not "said contender" -- I meant "said offender"

jeez!
March 18, 2007 6:14 PM
 

googleit said:

Le Roi est mort. Vive le Roi!
March 18, 2007 6:40 PM
 

Raymond Lewallen said:

People still read Scoble?  Damn, I figured out after the 3rd post that it was worthless reading.  Why do you even look, Rory?
March 18, 2007 6:53 PM
 

James said:

It's unfortunate when people take themselves too seriously. I always figured Silicon Valley was a big part of the problem: "I have invented a new Web site that sells facial tissues and will *change the future of business*!"
March 18, 2007 8:19 PM
 

Scott said:

"It was a "thank you" from Microsoft. That's why the talks were free, and that's why we gave away so much stuff."

Well, it's a little bit of marketing. Ok, it's a LOT of marketing of new products too. Right? I mean, that's part of the evangelism. Letting people know about new products. It's not all benevolence. But that's all part of the game we call technology. I sit through a marketing pitch for a new product, you give me a new T-shirt that doesn't fit my fat ass but that my wife can wear as a sleep shirt and a DVD with some bits on it. ;) It's all fair. Quid pro quo.

That being said, I wondered who was going to Fisk Scobles reply. (Hint: It was just so ...Fisk-able.) How do I know? I read the definition of "Fisking" at Wikipedia.

March 18, 2007 8:20 PM
 

James said:

Also, for what it's worth, I think the Channel 9 videos are/were way too long.

Also, and not to pile on, but there's one guy on Channel 9 whose laugh is really annoying--mostly because he seems to be right next to the microphone. So you hear an introverted nerd saying, "Well, uh, we cooked up this feature, you see..." in a really quiet voice, and you turn up the volume so you can understand what he's saying, and then your speakers start cackling for no reason.

The two things I would change about Channel 9? First, make the videos shorter. Second, enforce a "no cackling" rule on interviewers.
March 18, 2007 8:23 PM
 

zilla said:

Okay, so I'm just a consumer.  I happened to stumble upon your blog a couple of years ago, and I typically read without comment, because 1) I often learn stuff here and 2) you write well for a geek and 3) you always make me laugh, without fail.  

You claim you're getting hits off Scoble's site, yet I, a MicroSoft CONSUMER, still have not been even mildly tempted to click your links to Scoble's site, because, BECAUSE, his comments are just so gaddamned arrogant, humorless, and offensive in TONE, that I am not the slightest bit interested in any FACTS he might (very doubtful about that "might") have to offer to a MicroSoft CONSUMER.  It's kind of like when my ex forced me to listen to Rush Limbaugh.  Rush was an asshole, so I pretended to listen, but really I was fantasizing about MacGyver the entire time.  And then we got a divorce (my ex and me - sadly, I never did marry MacGyver).  

So, they say that for every roach you see on the floor, there are forty more behind the walls.  Consider me one hellafine MicroSoft consuming cockroach Rory.  None of us gives a poo-diddly what Scoble says, because we don't freakin' KNOW what Scoble says.  All we know is that Vista makes a way cool sound when our ex boots up the new Acer he bought at WalMart, so we gotta have Vista on our HPs too!

Scoble.  Peh.
March 18, 2007 9:07 PM
 

John Walker said:

Of course Scoble has a right to write anything he wants, but I really do find his criticism of Microsoft (more and more frequent) tough to take considering he was an evangelist for the company like yesterday.

The truth in what you note about this affecting real, hard-working people is very true. It's gotta hurt. And it does seem to fall into a pattern. Every few weeks it seems Scoble spews some viciousness on some company or group and I have come to believe it's a deliberate attempt to anger the hornets nest in the blogosphere and attract attention.

It'd be nice if he did a thoughtful post on what Microsoft is doing right...which from what I can see as a real-life user and developer is a lot. It's easy to pile on I guess.

PS: I don't work for Microsoft and I'm not in any A-list blogger clique.
March 18, 2007 9:08 PM
 

Jason Cox said:

Good points, Rory. I just dont get were Scoble gets this crap sometimes. At times he's on the money while at other times he's so far out in left field I have no idea what he's up to.
March 18, 2007 9:15 PM
 

Robert Scoble said:

Jason,

I have a lot of opinions. Sometimes they are pretty lame. Sometimes they are right on the money. I write so many of them that you're bound to find both. I'm just jealous of Rory cause he is always on the money and perfect and never does anything to piss anyone off.

Rory: >It seems you aren't used to receiving what you dish out.

Go back and read the tens of thousands of comments I got while I worked at Microsoft on my blog. I've gotten my share of hate mail on behalf of Microsoft and I'll put it up against anyone either inside or outside of Microsoft.

I'll just end on this note:

Google is still walking all over Microsoft's Internet strategy. Nothing you can write is changing that. No matter how much a loser I am, MSFT's Internet strategy still sucks raw eggs. Shall I point out again how many developers you guys are losing? I've done the interviews. Now that I'm outside of Microsoft I get to interview the "outside of Redmond" world and what I'm hearing should get any Microsoft evangelist really pissed.

Why don't you fix that? Then you'll really have the last laugh.

And my stock that I own in Microsoft would start going up, which would make me happier too! (it's the only company I own stock in, by the way).
March 18, 2007 9:44 PM
 

Robert Scoble said:

I might have missed the point, but you should see the complaints coming through my news aggregator about Microsoft.

Here's another one:

http://www.whatsnextblog.com/archives/2007/03/former_microsoft_blogger_robert_scoble.asp

But, I guess it's easier to attack me for tearing Microsoft a new one.

Good luck with the "attack Scoble" strategy. It might not suck, but lots of people are noticing a few other things about Microsoft.
March 18, 2007 10:07 PM
 

Rory said:

Scott -

"Well, it's a little bit of marketing. Ok, it's a LOT of marketing of new products too. Right? I mean, that's part of the evangelism. Letting people know about new products."

Well, in a way, yeah. The first two sessions were typically very much in the here's-how-to-use-it vein, while the third was sometimes about upcoming technology.

The third one was part marketing and part education, whereas the first two really were (in my opinion) entirely about helping our customers.

It might also have had to do with my point of view. I didn't see any of it as marketing. I was busy enough trying to keep up with the changing content, travel schedule, and other tasks to even think about it that much. Now that I have some distance, I can see what you're talking about.
March 18, 2007 11:14 PM
 

Rory said:

James -

"The two things I would change about Channel 9? First, make the videos shorter. Second, enforce a "no cackling" rule on interviewers."

I agree.

I usually put myself out with the people I'm interviewing, and that ought to balance out the audio some, but I have the Rory Wow... it's too loud and too frequent.

What's funny is that, until the interview's over, the two things you're most likely not to remember are:

1. How long it was

and

2. How many times you said "WOW" or laughed

I'm working on the first. I'll probably use editing to take care of it.

As for the second, it's one of those things that had to start as a mistake. No matter what, I'm going to get excited and want to show it some way (in part because sharing my excitement with the people I'm interviewing shows that the stuff really *is* every bit as cool as they're hoping - we've all been in the position of being too close to a subject and losing perspective of its value). Right now the expression of excitement is that "WOW."

But I *am* aware of it, and I'm working on fixing it...

Point being, I agree :)
March 18, 2007 11:18 PM
 

Rory said:

zilla -

"You claim you're getting hits off Scoble's site, yet I, a MicroSoft CONSUMER, still have not been even mildly tempted to click your links to Scoble's site, because, BECAUSE, his comments are just so gaddamned arrogant, humorless, and offensive in TONE, that I am not the slightest bit interested in any FACTS he might (very doubtful about that "might") have to offer to a MicroSoft CONSUMER."

First, thanks for reading - I've been trying to write here in a non-technical way. It's just the occasional post now.

Second, I know what you mean about the arrogance. I can certainly be a pompous jerk, but I like to at *least* try and entertain people (including the object of my displeasure) while ranting.

Until today, I didn't fully realize just how far off the deep end Scoble had gone.

One thing I'll say in his favor is that he gets a lot of crap and criticism from people all over the world. I don't get even remotely as much as he does, yet it can still bother me. I imagine, then, that he's tired of it.

That said, he couldn't be *too* tired of it. Posting the crap he does about Microsoft is just asking for people to give him a hard time. He deserves it, too.

Not just about Microsoft, either, but every other company he's attacked for kicks (or, I should say, for hits).

It's a gross way to try and get attention. At least that's my opinion. He's free to do whatever he wants, of course, but I'm also free to respond in the manner I see fit.

"It's kind of like when my ex forced me to listen to Rush Limbaugh.  Rush was an asshole, so I pretended to listen, but really I was fantasizing about MacGyver the entire time.  And then we got a divorce (my ex and me - sadly, I never did marry MacGyver)."

Richard Dean Anderson is awesome. Good choice :)  

"None of us gives a poo-diddly what Scoble says, because we don't freakin' KNOW what Scoble says."

The thing that sucks is that, although most people have no idea who he is, he's become this de-facto voice for geeks in some areas. Through force of will, I think, but others might not agree.

He gained a lot of his audience during a time when it seemed cool and daring to talk smack about companies, and particularly the one for which you work. It led people to think that, if he's saying somethinng crappy about his own company, he *mus* be trustworthy!

He's also spent a lot of time networking with all the other geeks who want the same thing he does, which appears to be a voice that isn't well deserved. It's created a self-referential chain of 69ing bloggers, each licking the other's private parts, who link to each other (even when the content is bull and they know it) and stand up for each other.

Things are starting to change, though, and that's good. Scoble threw some temper tantrums not too long ago about not getting links from certain sites, about not getting enough free hardware (how many Zunes does one person need for free - and if the financials of his company are in such good shape, shouldn't he be able to just buy a truckload?) from some companies.

I'm glad to see that people are starting to wake up to what bullshit it all is. I wouldn't mind, but when a guy makes his living by trying to destroy others, it pisses me off.
March 18, 2007 11:31 PM
 

Rory said:

John -

"The truth in what you note about this affecting real, hard-working people is very true. It's gotta hurt. And it does seem to fall into a pattern. Every few weeks it seems Scoble spews some viciousness on some company or group and I have come to believe it's a deliberate attempt to anger the hornets nest in the blogosphere and attract attention."

This pattern has been going around for a *looong* time. It's kind of scary how long, really.

I don't know why I snapped today. Maybe it was just time. I was able to deal with it for a while, but something about reading that last anti-MS post left me feeling like the guy has finally gone way too far (where he had already been going too far in the past).

As for it being an attempt to get attention - I think so, too. It seems like he's trying to build up an image as this dashing tech guru who can run around and pass judgment on every company that he feels needs to get slammed (because it didn't initially send him as many Zunes as he would like). It's irritating.

And, if it *is* an attempt at getting attention, then it's even more offensive.

There's no good that can come from what he wrote. The only thing it can do is bring him more attention. Tons of people at Microsoft already know better about what he writes.

The idea that he might trash these companies just to get more eyes on his own blog is disgusting. Really, I don't know what he hopes to gain.
March 18, 2007 11:38 PM
 

Rory said:

Dilip -

Thanks for that comment. It quite rocked, yo :)
March 18, 2007 11:39 PM
 

Robert Scoble said:

>when a guy makes his living by trying to destroy others, it pisses me off.

My living is by doing http://www.scobleshow.com.

I've done 200 videos since leaving Microsoft. Not one has attacked another company while they all show off cool stuff (including several tours with Microsoft).

And you accuse me of lack of balance? Amazing. Well, good luck with that!

I have some killer videos of Microsoft stuff up there (including the demo of the year last year). More Pro-Microsoft stuff (very cool stuff too) is coming from the tech fest (which you covered too).

What's interesting is you can't take the bad with the good. I've said hundreds of nice things about Microsoft since leaving. I guess those don't count, just the nasty ones.

Well, Microsoft's Internet strategy does suck. I'll be at Mix07 to see whether that changes. I hope it does.

But I know one thing. Calling me names might make you feel better, but it won't change the fact that Microsoft isn't doing all that well in the Internet space.
March 18, 2007 11:52 PM
 

Rory said:

Scoble -

"Rory: >It seems you aren't used to receiving what you dish out.

Go back and read the tens of thousands of comments I got while I worked at Microsoft on my blog. I've gotten my share of hate mail on behalf of Microsoft and I'll put it up against anyone either inside or outside of Microsoft."

I said that "Idea [I]t seems" for a reason. I'm beyond trying to make sense out of why you do certain things.

Here's what happened to *me* today:

- Woke up.

- Saw a comment on Channel 9 which referenced your MS rant on Friday.

- Got pissed off because, for fuck's sake, haven't you written that post *enough*?

- Wrote a reply of which you were very deserving.

- You commented here. Instead of just countering me, you posted a bunch of pissy little comments. You threw your weight around by telling us about how many times you've been written up or how many blogs you're reading. Do you *really* think that kind of pomposity is going to be rewarded?

- I wrote a post in response. I thought that was how you liked to handle your "conversations." You always encourage people to post replies to your blog on their own. I guess it doesn't go both ways (the links should all be inbound, right? you're the one who was bitching about sites not linking - and, don't worry - I'm just showing you what it's like to have someone behave entitled to your attention and links).

- You wrote even more crap here, none of which was in any way compelling. It's just more, "Well what *I* think is..." and "What *I* heard about Microsoft in the Google cafeteria was..." - No data. Nothing conclusive. Just more tabloid garbage.

If you got a lot of angry email while at Microsoft (or anywhere), I can see why.

It turns out that, if you repeatedly write bullshit stories about the company and its people, it might eventually piss us off.

You earned it.

"I'll just end on this note:"

You didn't. You came back a few minutes later and posted another comment. You have a habit of doing it. As though stinging little comebacks occur to you, and you want to make sure that the full weight of your wrath falls upon me.

In all cases, you probably should've have written more. The stuff you come back to post is the most vitriolic. Doesn't help anybody out - certainly not you.

"Gogle is still walking all over Microsoft's Internet strategy."

Yeah. You said something about that.

Without providing any data to back it up or any solutions to the problems *you* see.

Obviously, Google has a major lead in some areas. If you think that's news to the tech world, then you ought to take a step back and ask yourself if you should still be writing.

It's either a major slip, or you're just trying to rub it in.

Which is it? I'd love to know.

"Nothing you can write is changing that."

Really (imagine a look of astonishment).

My point wasn't to change anything about Microsoft's strategy.

My point was that neither was yours.

You simply attacked. You didn't provide any helpful advice. You told us to ship. Do you think we don't *know* already that shipping is important? Do you *really* think that you somehow know better?

You must think so. But, and be honest, do you *really* believe that someone would put you in charge of any major product team?

What would you say to your people? Ship? As though they had no idea?

*That'd* go over well.

So, I wasn't trying to change anything. I just replied to you as you deserved it. That's all.

"No matter how much a loser I am, MSFT's Internet strategy still sucks raw eggs."

I will say the following:

1. I'm disappointed that our "internet strategy" isn't inversely proportional to how much of a loser you are. I could probably sell my stock and retire were that the case.

2. If it's *raw* eggs, then at least we're doing something right. We'd look damned silly trying to suck hard-boiled eggs out of their shells.

3. Thank you for the constructive criticism. You've demonstrated yourself to be an amazing strategist - if only the Live team had been able to figure out that sucking raw eggs would get us nowhere. Very kind. Thanks for the bone.

"Shall I point out again how many developers you guys are losing?"

Totally! I obviously haven't encountered enough of your anti-MS BS for one lifetime.

After you tell me that, tell me again what kind of eggs our internet strategy is sucking (does anyone else find it odd that the *strategy* is what appears to be sucking the eggs? I knew what he meant, but it's still pretty funny).

"I've done the interviews. Now that I'm outside of Microsoft I get to interview the "outside of Redmond" world and what I'm hearing should get any Microsoft evangelist really pissed."

I can't believe it.

So... you've interviewed people from companies which compete with us, and you're telling me that they don't have only the nicest things to say about us?

I'm starting to understand why you told me I know nothing about this industry. Your knack for constantly stating the obvious as though your every thought is an eye-opening lesson for those who should be lucky enough to hear it is probably the source.

As long as you think these common ideas are profound, you're bound to believe that you must be The Smartest Man in the World (but that's me, so it's impossible).

"I might have missed the point, but you should see the complaints coming through my news aggregator about Microsoft."

You should hear some complaints about yourself that I hear in the hallways at Microsoft.

Outside the hallways, too.

In the bloody *air-ducts*.

"But, I guess it's easier to attack me for tearing Microsoft a new one."

Wow. The Dave Winer Defense.

Stop it. You're not a victim, nor may you declare yourself the victor.

I, however, may do so. But I choose not to.

Because I like to think that you attacked *me* because I tore *you* a new one after you drooled the contents of your anemic intellect over my company one too many times.

(You should be able to tell that I'm upset about something. If you guessed that it was your bullshit post combined with your reaction to my reaction to it, then you're right!)

"Good luck with the 'attack Scoble' strategy."

Well, attacking has served *you* well. What I've learned from you is that, if I want to be an A-List blogger (where's this bloody list? and don't point me to another site which declares authority based on some ego-stroking metric), all I have to do is what Robert Scoble does:

Attack someone else's company, attack my own company, apologize to all involved for having-gone-overboard-again-this-is-the-last-time-I-promise, lather, rinse repeat.

"It might not suck, but lots of people are noticing a few other things about Microsoft."

Oh. They're finally noticing, eh.

I *thought* my company looked fat in these jeans.
March 19, 2007 12:17 AM
 

Robert Scoble said:

>So... you've interviewed people from companies which compete with us, and you're telling me that they don't have only the nicest things to say about us?

They usually are smart enough to tell me what's cool about their stuff. I don't remember anyone smacking an attack toward Microsoft. Got a URL where someone did that in a video?

And, certainly, I have a few Microsoft videos on ScobleShow.

As for your being angry. I got that the first time. I should have acknowledged that I heard you. I don't agree with you, but that's OK.

Well, have a good one. Hope you feel better now that you got that all out of your system.
March 19, 2007 12:32 AM
 

Rory said:

Scoble -

">when a guy makes his living by trying to destroy others, it pisses me off.

My living is by doing http://www.scobleshow.com."

Your living goes back to your blog. Without it, you wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Without it, you'd be forgotten.

You know that. That's why you continue to write even though you're exhausted.

"I've done 200 videos since leaving Microsoft. Not one has attacked another company while they all show off cool stuff (including several tours with Microsoft)."

Yeah. I remember.

You did that Zune video. The one in which, a little while into the video, you asked a question and then turned away, focusing instead on the camera's viewfinder, squinting into it, seeing that the subject of your interview was in frame more than *you* were, correcting that error, and then getting back to the interview not having cared a bit about what he had to say.

Then, not long after, you wrote a big whiny post about how you didn't receive enough Zunes.

You might not attack other companies in your videos, but you demonstrate a lack of good taste while on camera, and your off-camera videos are there for all to see.

Including the way you attack other companies.

"I have some killer videos of Microsoft stuff up there (including the demo of the year last year). More Pro-Microsoft stuff (very cool stuff too) is coming from the tech fest (which you covered too)."

Great. Put up all your "killer" videos.

And, after, write another pomous blog entry about how poorly we're doing.

Take content from us for free, use it to your own advantage, and then give us a bunch of shit.

That's nice.

"What's interesting is you can't take the bad with the good. I've said hundreds of nice things about Microsoft since leaving. I guess those don't count, just the nasty ones."

Well, yeah. I suppose I'd agree with you there.

Given the frequency with which you bash Microsoft, I can't help but think that the "nice" posts are just there to provide the appearance that you actually have a very balanced viewpoint.

I don't buy it.

You hurt good people when you write shit like that.

And these are the same people who are willing to provide you with interviews.

Again... nice.

"Well, Microsoft's Internet strategy does suck. I'll be at Mix07 to see whether that changes. I hope it does."

Your word doesn't mean much. You go back and forth so often, you whine so often, you attack so often... the "I hope" statements, although they might mean a lot to *you*, get lost in the noise.

"But I know one thing. Calling me names might make you feel better, but it won't change the fact that Microsoft isn't doing all that well in the Internet space."

Dude. My first post about you was actually rather fair considering what you had to say about people at my company. It wasn't until you came back with all your nasty comments that I decided to stop being polite.

Again, you're just getting what you deserve.

And *please* stop with the "You can [insert activity here], but it isn't going to change the fact that Microsoft isn't doing all that well in the Internet space" comments.

I get your point. What's clear is that you aren't listening.

I'm not trying to change our success by addressing you.

In calling you out, it's not just for Microsoft. It's for anybody who's had to wake up and find a bunch of shit about his company on your site.

Again, it's not about Microsoft. It's about you serving yourself by putting others down.

You've been doing it too long. You might have built up a base of readers who buy what you're saying, but there are many of us in the industry who know what bullshit it is.

If you don't like reading negative things about your own company, then you ought to think about what you've been doing to others.

Your success should not come at the expense of people who are doing good work and who are trying.

If you *really* want to help - and if you want to see some changes - then why don't you tell us what to do in order to be successful rather than telling us what you believe we *aren't* doing that's causing us to fail.

See the difference?

You deserve it. Plain and simple.
March 19, 2007 12:33 AM
 

Rory said:

Scoble -

">So... you've interviewed people from companies which compete with us, and you're telling me that they don't have only the nicest things to say about us?

They usually are smart enough to tell me what's cool about their stuff. I don't remember anyone smacking an attack toward Microsoft. Got a URL where someone did that in a video?"

Uh. Why are you asking for a URL?

Read my statement again. I didn't say that anybody said anything *during* an interview.

"And, certainly, I have a few Microsoft videos on ScobleShow."

Yes.

And, to be clear, how long should the teams represented in those videos enjoy being shown on PodTech before you decide to write a nasty post about them?

It'd be nice to give advance warning so that they're ready to watch as your site lights up with the anger of MS-haters everywhere (you *can* give us advance warning, I'm sure - after all, a responsible person such as yourself would never, ever write about something as complex as a long-term business strategy without first doing a lot of research (not talking about he-said/she-said data here)).

"As for your being angry. I got that the first time. I should have acknowledged that I heard you. I don't agree with you, but that's OK."

My anger is not a matter of your approval.

"Well, have a good one. Hope you feel better now that you got that all out of your system."

It's not really that simple.

In the past, I was able to tolerate a bit of your bitchy anti-CompanyX posts, but you've really gone too far. Over time, you've finally eroded the last bit of my patience.

It's not out of my system. At all.
March 19, 2007 12:40 AM
 

Robert Scoble said:

I deserve it. You're right. I'm an ass##le and you are the appointed one to make me realize the error of my ways. Punishment deserved and taken.

As to the Zune video. That's here. http://www.podtech.net/scobleshow/technology/1204/microsoft-zune-in-depth

I just watched it again. I just framed up the video. I guess everything I do is an egotistical bahstard act. OK. The reframing comes within the first 60 seconds. I think it actually improves the shot. But, that's just me.

I don't remember whining about the Zunes. I did receive a couple from Edelman that I wrote about here: http://scobleizer.com/2006/11/14/two-zunes-arrived/ -- I don't see the snarkiness. I said "very nice of them."
March 19, 2007 12:44 AM
 

Massif said:

Well, I'm officially bored of the argument - t'was entertaining for a while but I'm tired and it's Monday morning.

Either kiss and make up, or sit arms folded facing in opposite directions ignoring each other, but stop this tit-for-tat in the comments. (You may have already, I can't remember how the timestamps relate to GMT.) Clearly neither of you is going to give an inch, the time has come to cease and desist for the good of those of us who want to read this blog for its usual insightfulness and entertainment.

At the risk of conforming to stereotypes: "Alright, alright, Calm down, calm down." ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouser and http://www.totalhumour.com/cgi-bin/showpic.cgi?picid=76  ) Although it should be noted I speak with a clear BBC English accent.
March 19, 2007 2:18 AM
 

Farid said:

Rory.  RORY, Rory, rory.

Haven't you figured Scoble out by now?  He's fun to read because he's a nexus of information, not because he has any particularly deep insights into our industry.  Somewhere along the line he mistook being a conduit of information for being a creator of information.  Unfortunately, a lot of his readers will give him credence merely because they're accustomed to reading thoughts from industry experts on his blog.  Scoble's an entertainer, kinda like the Rush Limbaugh of the blogosphere.  

Yes, you're more intelligent than he is.  So much so, in fact, that I suspect these posts were merely trolls.  If so, nicely done.  (And no, Robert, don't bother responding.  I respect the work you've done, and the readers you've amassed, but this industry doesn't hinge on your words.  No insult intended.)
March 19, 2007 3:46 AM
 

Andrew said:

Rory, please, please, please don't lower yourself to his standards. You are far to intelligent and articulate.

C9 is far better since Robert Scoble (and ego) moved on. Try to ignore (I know it's difficult) the cheap shots, and carry on with the great work on C9 and here.

As Farid said...
"Somewhere along the line he mistook being a conduit of information for being a creator of information."

He is typical of many in the IT industry who have no original thoughts or ideas of their own but are happy trash those who do.






March 19, 2007 4:33 AM
 

dddddddddddddddddd said:

I\'ve never seen Rory so jealous of somebody as he is of Scoble.
Clearly he thinks Scoble is undeserving. Rory should ask himself what he has done in comparison to Scoble. The answer is not much. I don\'t necessarily like Scoble, but I think Rory is in the wrong here. Scoble is trying to be as polite as he can in his responses. Maybe a massive inferiority complex is a side effect of OCD, so perhaps it\'s not Rory\'s fault.
March 19, 2007 5:19 AM
 

James said:

Rory-- Actually, from what I can tell the cackling problem seems to have fixed itself, when Channel 9 hired a new interviewer to replace their previous guy...

Again, I'm not trying to be mean or pile on or anything: the two things I remember about Scoble's Channel 9 videos were that they were too long, and the annoying laugh (which, as you point out, was entirely a result of the interviewer standing too close to the camera).

If nothing more, it's a good ego-check.
March 19, 2007 6:45 AM
 

Dilip said:


I second Farid and Andrew.  You have completely battered Scoble into submission.  I think its time to ease up -- you have made your point.  Let it go.  *sigh* I almost feel sorry for Scoble now.  He probably didn't expect someone to really challenge him this bad.
March 19, 2007 6:45 AM
 

Doh. said:

"I deserve it. You're right. I'm an ass##le and you are the appointed one to make me realize the error of my ways. Punishment deserved and taken."

 Oh FFS, stop acting like a spoilt brat. I guess being invited into the Winer circle-jerk requires an initiation on how to act like a 9 year old when you can't win an argument.
March 19, 2007 6:50 AM
 

David said:

Using Excel and VBA, I've calculated that Rory is now winning by 17 points with the current 'bitching floating-median' representing a 32.4 points spread.

A simple linear interpolation of the data reveals that just one more 'I know you are, but what am I' snipe from the Red corner will official 0wns this competition beyond mathematical doubt. The winner will get to wear a tiara and an entire parade.

A dead tie will be resolved by whapping your wangs on the table and measuring 'eyeballs per day'.

Rory, you are a wonderful writer, an apparently smart guy and your girlfriend looks hot. For your job you do a combination of education and marketing for Microsoft. Remain calm, Scoble's comments don't matter that much.

Rob, you are a connector and a great blogger - I've read your 'wrong!/talk/sorry' format for many years. My guess is Rory feels betrayed and is pissed for lots of reasons. Give him a link on your blog - I dare you, his criticism is well written - you've become the 'Silicon Valley Version of Scoble' and the goatf**k piling you'll get if you do link will generate a lots of traffic for you/Podtech too.
March 19, 2007 7:41 AM
 

edddy said:

Rory: Great to know you are shortening the videos to 15 minutes.
I stop reading C9 because the videos took years to download and later I can't find the time to watch 45 minutes video.

Get straight to the point and cut the blah, blah in the videos and you will win me again.
March 19, 2007 7:56 AM
 

dddddddddddddddddd said:

""I deserve it. You're right. I'm an ass##le and you are the appointed one to make me realize the error of my ways. Punishment deserved and taken."

Oh FFS, stop acting like a spoilt brat. I guess being invited into the Winer circle-jerk requires an initiation on how to act like a 9 year old when you can't win an argument."

You totally misunderstood this. I am positive Scoble did not mean this in a sarcastic way, but rather as feigned humbleness. Scoble thinks that if he gives earnest humble responses, it will make people like him more. I'm sure he doesn't have a high opinion of Cory, nor does he think that Cory is right in the least in this case.

That only proves that Scoble will say anything to succeed, and that makes him the bigger winner.

Scoble 1, Rory 0
March 19, 2007 8:03 AM
 

Massif said:

(The quoting markup probably won't work, but hey.)
[quote user="ddddddddddddddddd"]
""I deserve it. You're right. I'm an ass##le and you are the appointed one to make me realize the error of my ways. Punishment deserved and taken."

Oh FFS, stop acting like a spoilt brat. I guess being invited into the Winer circle-jerk requires an initiation on how to act like a 9 year old when you can't win an argument."

You totally misunderstood this. I am positive Scoble did not mean this in a sarcastic way, but rather as feigned humbleness. Scoble thinks that if he gives earnest humble responses, it will make people like him more. I'm sure he doesn't have a high opinion of Cory, nor does he think that Cory is right in the least in this case.

That only proves that Scoble will say anything to succeed, and that makes him the bigger winner.
[/quote]

Congratulations on winning most incoherent and bizarre post this week.

1: You seem to think that somehow Scoble's pretending to give in, and admitting Rory's greatness without being sarcastic? What planet are you from? And do they have sarcasm, or did you have to learn it when you got here.

2: Who the hell is Cory? Or is this supposed to be put up on Boing-Boing?

3: "Scoble will say anything to succeeed, and that makes him the bigger winner." - So, you think that if you, for example, lie your ass off - that's OK as long as you're doing it to succeed.

Dude, you've got some strange values there.
March 19, 2007 8:25 AM
 

ddewbofh (Dave) said:

Massif, it's Foxbar. What the hell did you expect? :) It's not like he's all of a sudden is gonna start making sense or anything.
March 19, 2007 8:34 AM
 

chris hollander said:

i swear, this is just like the jay-z / Nas beef, from a few years ago.  







except boring.
March 19, 2007 8:39 AM
 

Massif said:

@ddewbofh - I guess I shouldn't expect any better. Couldn't he think up an anagram for this site? Perhaps oxbarf?

This is more B.I.G. vs. Tupac anyway; young pretender vs. portly fella. (Couldn't think of a better link between B.I.G. and Scoble, if you think of one let me know.)
March 19, 2007 8:59 AM
 

dddddddddddddddddd said:

"You seem to think that somehow Scoble's pretending to give in, and admitting Rory's greatness without being sarcastic?"

If by greatness you mean the same greatness that makes Paris Hilton great, then yes, that's what I meant.
March 19, 2007 9:07 AM
 

Dave said:

@Massif

Perhaps old-school vs. new-school? Scoble was old-school, starting the "conversation" and getting the ball rolling while Rory is new-school in the way that he takes what's been done and changes/improves it. That's the way I see it, their styles are different but the core is still the same. Both do relatively informal informal interviews and the only real difference is in the execution.
March 19, 2007 9:11 AM
 

Ian said:

Massif - ""Alright, alright, Calm down, calm down." "

Heh, classic show.

We had a vp of dev once who looked and sounded scarily like Stavros.
Sadly (or not) he did an internal video once with the new CEO in a kitchen (I forget the metaphor) but still remember the laughs it intentionally generated.
"Hello Peeps" followed him for the rest of his career with us.
March 19, 2007 9:13 AM
 

Ian said:

(un) intentionally..

it's early (ish)
March 19, 2007 9:30 AM
 

Zer0Mass said:

Why all the venom towards poor Rory and Microsoft?  I thought you had more professionalism than that.  Did you leave under the less than the “friendly” circumstances you claim?  I don’t think Rory stole your job but you seem to be attacking both him and your former employer.  I’ll be the first to admit that not everything that Microsoft has done has been the best idea (I for one hate the DRM that they have chosen to involve themselves with) and let’s face it Rory talked about having a fecal matter flinging party at his new place (ok so he was joking but still that’s not something one would find on your site).  Lately I see a lot of negative comments about companies and products on your site but I don’t see many suggestions about how to do things better.  In Washington we already have some one that does that, his name is Tim Eyman, and we don’t need another one.  I used to see you try to engage people in debates about subjects where both parties would grow; now all I see you do is slam anything you don’t like and not really talk about it other than that.  I think you still have some important things to say but you seem to have regressed to a teenage mentality of shouting “you suck” without much more in the way of content.  As was told to me by someone you used to work with don’t say you suck, say you suck because and here is how you can improve.  If I want someone to yell at me about how horrible a product is without any suggestions about how to make it better I’ll go listen to some of our more un-educated customers.  You have not only an opportunity but a responsibility to challenge the people and companies in our industry grow and improve every day and offer your guidance and wisdom to the industry as a whole not you venom and hate, down that path lies the dark side.  John Stewart called out reporters and the media to stop the one sided reporting that was happening (buy both sides) in the news, so I am calling you out.  I demand better of you.  I am not going to stop reading or watching you because you still have something to say, but you need to start reporting more like Walter Cronkite or people will just stop listening.  I know I am not a big name like Rory or so many others, but we are countless, and in the end if we stop listening then Forbs, the Wall Street Journal  and the other big names you are so proud of having been mentioned by will stop caring about you.  You have a responsibility and it’s time you set a positive example you the rest of the community you are now a leader of.
March 19, 2007 9:42 AM
 

Zer0Mass said:

bah, One day I will make use of that grammer check thingy in Word.  I also just realized that I compared Rober Scoble to Time Eyman.  Does that mean that Rory is John Stewart?
March 19, 2007 11:36 AM
 

SK said:

Microsoft: Our internet services group has created a new product.
Scoble: It sucks!
M: What? You haven't even seen it!
S: I don't need to. It sucks. Microsoft's internet execution sucks. Everything the team does sucks.
Commenters on the blog: Microsoft sucks! Apple... blah blah... Wii... blah blah...
Other commenters: No. You're wrong...
Scoble: You're all idiots. I need smart readers.
March 19, 2007 11:43 AM
 

Bas said:

Eloquent and right on the mark. Excellent post, Rory.  I'm amazed at Scoble's reaction. At the very start of this whole mess I thought it was a bit unfair to rip on Scoble for speaking his mind about Microsoft like that, but reading his replies... hoo boy. The ego has landed.

Anyway, just wanted to chime in with a 'yes' to the shorter videos. The hour long ones are very interesting, but it's just hard to find the time and pay full attention to one video every couple of days. As you said, it's not something you can run in the background: you need to sit down and give it your total attention. That's just hard to find the time for.

Of course, a lot of them -are- really good. The UAC video was incredible. So I say keep the hour long ones for shows like Going Deep, and pop daily 15 minute ones on the front page. The best of both worlds!
March 19, 2007 2:30 PM
 

jesse said:

Reading through this thread, one thought rings loudest in my mind. It has commanded my imagination for the past fifteen minutes without fail, and I therefore feel compelled to share something I would've otherwise quietly enjoyed.

While part of me does indeed wants to point out how tiring it is to watch you slag anyone Robert, in the way that has become the darker contrast to your inquisitive and amicable online persona, pointing that out just isn't as important as what I must say.

And how you Rory can set about serving up a delicious post made with humor and diplomacy, only to quickly reach that chewy venomous noughat, pales in comparison to the gravity of this latest realization of mine.

Rory your avatar photo makes you look like David Bowie.
March 19, 2007 2:41 PM
 

Andy said:

Jesse,
   He looks a bit Bowie-like in person sometimes depending on what he is wearing. This is not a bad thing by any means.


Rory,
   Go get em. I may not love MSFT but I would way rather listen to some one who is willing to stand up for a technology and company they believe in than listen to some one who tears down a company while offering no solution to claimed problems. My lieutenant in the Marines used to say "Don't bring me a problem unless you have a good suggestion on how to fix it because if you don't have a solution you are just whining and I hate whiners".
   Also I would rather read slash-dot than read anything Scoble has to say and I hate slash-dot with a passion and haven't read it in years. So the chances I will go read Scoble's blog are slim to none.
   Keep up the good work Rory you are entertaining and well written, I always enjoy reading your posts. Even the navel gazing ones. Well OK to be honest the navel gazing ones can get old but I still read them.
March 19, 2007 5:54 PM
 

Tim said:

"My lieutenant in the Marines used to say "Don't bring me a problem unless you have a good suggestion on how to fix it because if you don't have a solution you are just whining and I hate whiners"."

I'm sorry to say it, but your lieutenant was wrong (unless he used it as a teaching technique).  If you don't report problems, they don't get fixed. It's as simple as that.

I can see it now:

"Sir! Incoming artillery, Sir!"
"Son, if you don't have a solution, I don't want to hear about it."
*BOOOOOOOOOOM*
March 19, 2007 7:09 PM
 

Scott said:

Tim,

In that case the solution is implied. Fire and Maneuver.

They fire.

You maneuver the hell out of the way.
March 19, 2007 9:08 PM
 

Andy said:

Tim,
"Incoming artillery, hit the deck."

see problem and solution in one simple sentence. No whining just "get er done".
March 19, 2007 10:19 PM
 

Rory said:

Andy -

"Keep up the good work Rory you are entertaining and well written, I always enjoy reading your posts. Even the navel gazing ones. Well OK to be honest the navel gazing ones can get old but I still read them."

Thanks :)

You've been very supportive over the years, and you don't seem to mind telling me when I stink, too.

It makes the compliments genuine, and it makes the (minor) complaints worth considering.

That's all good stuff.

I don't trust people who have nothing but good things to say (or bad things for that matter)...
March 19, 2007 10:52 PM
 

Steve Collins said:

I always found Mr. Scobles videos to be informative and interesting. The only thing missing was the abscence of the presence of Mr. Scoble himself. His videos always include some loud self obsessed rhetoric . If he hasn't spoken for some ten seconds he'll make the obligatory interuption to disrupt the interviewee by asking for a different shot or to change the lights.
It gets very tiresome after a while. I found myself willing some of the guys at Microsoft to just tell him he's not funny , and they weren't there just to contribute to his comedy video. You can probably tell I was very pleased to see he moved on from channel 9.
March 21, 2007 3:17 PM
 

Brian said:

We are already reading about companies that paid Robert to do favorable interviews with them without disclosing he was paid.

It is the old Radio and TV trick where you could "buy" interviews and shows.

Every convention I go to, Robert boasts as to how many unique visitors he gets and how many people watch his videos, as well has how company x has paid him how many thousands of dollars to "sponsor" his show.

What does it mean to "sponsor" his show? An hour-long favorable interview?

Valleywag has a good post on the question "Is he a Sociopath?"
March 22, 2007 9:04 PM

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